Hornady LNL AP Autodrive - Project

[herpinator45]

For all those interested;

I am in the early design stages for an auto drive for the LNL press. This is driven by the fact that I have back problems, and it is exacerbated by running the press. I have a bit of a design / drafting background, but I am making transition from AUTOCAD to SOLIDWORKS for this project so it will be a bit of a process. I might be looking to crowd source the project a bit.

In addition to the auto drive I am looking at designing a primer pocket swage adapter for the primer assembly for both large and small primers. (for processing, would require temporary changeover)

My design criteria is as follows:

Variable speed operation -

• 300 - 600 Cycles Per Hour (CPH) for the the utmost control (6 - 12 second cycle time (sct)
• 1200 CPH for reloading of straight wall pistol cartridges (3 sct)
• 1500 CPH for processing brass (not reloading) (2.4 sct) (might be too fast for the Hornady LNL (due to spring jumping out of track occasionally at station 1)

Integration with a controller / press monitor for a better overview of the process - and give the press monitor the ability to shutdown the press upon trouble conditions (Interlock)

I plan on mounting the whole assembly on a baseplate system to keep everything in proper relation - also machine will be mounted on strong mount (or proprietary design base) upon that baseplate to allow for room for movement of components.

End State:

• Provide a cut sheet / design overview for those who are interesed in building it themselves (not for resale) - Free of charge
• Offering at a reasonable cost to those whole would like to purchase unit pre manufactured - Cover my expenses and my time (Don't worry I'm cheap)
• Offering installation service for 1 stop - you ship me or drop off your press and I get it to work (I'm cheap... shipping is not though)

If you have anything positive to contribute to this project in the area of ideas, concepts, design skills, or manufacturing skills please feel free to shoot me a message, or just post on the board.

FYI I will be purchasing a Dillon 1050 in the future with auto drive anyways, however I feel that the LNL is more an everyman press and it deserves the attention also.

As the design progresses in solidworks I will begin to post photos as it is in the preliminary design stages and isn't much to look at

 

[hexbasher]

a swager is on my todo list for my LNL... once my side project free up that is...so many ideas, so little free time...

... ive made afew accessories for my LNL... as for the swager its really straight forward (i was going to copy my RCBS combo swager die profile) but the only hard thing would be mounting an ejection system...easiest method would be to not mount the swager in the subplate but to drill and tap the hole in the casting below it...easy ... putting the new hole there, youd just need to drill the hole from the back side which isnt an easy task locating ... mind you youll have to put a setscrew in said hole for when you are pressing in primers but you get the side bonus of adjustable primer depths

if/when i do this, ill probably make a fixture on the cnc to locate the LNL for the manual mill to pop the hole .. youd want it with a few thou...swaging on the press would be baller, making my 223 prep faster be at least 30%

 

[hexbasher]

id love to see you ideas though. .IGES files would be great since i work with gibbscam

 

[herpinator45]

I just am slowly pegging away at the swager project, as I don't have access to my press as we are currently moving... but just a quick update

 

[slicknova]

is a plc too expensive for automation?, all sensors could tie in to it.... add some sensors and hydraulics and kaboom, ammo robot.

 

[hexbasher]

any progress?

my primer pocket swagger is like one or two projects away on my todo list

 

[herpinator45]

This project is currently dead in the water as I have been having a large amount of trouble with my press.
The swager project will continue, however I do have some patent concerns as I have found a very similar device for a dillon 650 (and I do not know if they are close enough that patent infringement would ensue)
See this link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/G-S-Custom-primer-pocket-swager-uniformer-for-Dillon-XL650-223-308-9mm-45-/321259416273

However I have done some work on the auto drive concept.... and there are three major issues:

1. Shell plate spring not being properly retained in grove between stations 1 and 5
2. Cases tilting when passing over spring passage on station 1 while being fed into shell plate
3. Primer System - MAJOR CONCERN - as we all know it is very finicky - right now I am experiencing between 3 to 5% primer flip and 8 to 10% of shuttle sticking to rear with small primers. I have spent considerable amount of time on the phone with tech support and we have it narrowed down to the primer shuttle is defective with the hole being .05" to far forward (so I will be swapping out with my spare shuttle)

as mentioned in a previous post I will be moving in the next couple of weeks, so by mid January I should have press up and running again and will see if I can rectify some of these issues

I do have some fixes in mind though

1. Shell plate spring - possibly caused by the shell plate retaining bolt loosening ever so slightly over the course of 500 rounds - will be looking at a thin lock washer with a quantified torque setting for the retaining bolt (I am thinking around 10'#)
2. Very mild fillet inner edge of spring passage channel to prevent edge of rims catching

Will continue to update as situation develops, always looking for input and thoughts

 

[hexbasher]

patent infringement??? whats your intent here? you trying to make a product?

 

[herpinator45]

I am not trying to make a product to go to market per say, but if someone wanted to purchase one at a reasonable cost (cover my expenses) I would not be opposed to selling it. However plans again would be free for those who wished to manufacture for personal use.

However I am not really familiar with patent laws (but I do have a friend who is a patent lawyer) So I am going to pick his brain the next time I see him (10th or 13th of December) before I publish too much more stuff just to ensure I am not infringing. As the designs by nature are essentially identical.

I just want to insulate myself from liability of patent infringement

Hope you all understand

 

[hexbasher]

It doesn't hurt to talk to your buddy. Since his is for a Dillon and yours will be for a Hornady; I don't see there being an issue, but I'm no lawyer.

His idea would be hard to do for the Hornady. The Hornady primer seater punch unit needs 0.317" clearance under the subplate and to make a swagger that threads into the subplate (replacing the primer punch) would be difficult to fit a strong spring in that 0.317" package. Sorry, sourcing a spring would actually be the hard thing. Hell, I can whip this out on a lathe in 15mins. I can't machine a spring though.

(ebay guy uses an industrial "die spring" used in molds) look them up in a KBCtools catalog...

(the hex portion of the Hornady primer punch measures 0.317")

That's why my idea was to mount a solid (no spring or moving bits) into the casting...Not a DIY thing to do or a peice you could sell since the press itself needs to be modified. Some milling would be needed for clearance in order to drill and tap the hole too...I'll give it a try though, and if it doesn't work I can always weld/braze that hole solid again. Or sleeve it and try again.....

you can probably guess what my day job is...

 

[hexbasher]

Hey herpinator45, any updates buddy?

my swagger is top of my 'to-do list'



made the fixture today on one of the CNCs

dialed the casting in square

slammed a hole in it

back bored it

partially re-assembled the press (holes lined up within afew thou, and used the sub plate as a tapping fixture. in theory the holes should have a perfect alignment

###y hole!

painstakingly continued to hand tap said hole

i knew i was cutting it close (screw you if you dont like my puns, see what i did there?) but a 5/16-24 thread did end up breaking thru. originally i wanted to tap it all the way thru but aprox 1.75 of threads is good enough

tomorrow i just have to jump on the lathe and make two swaggers (big and small primer pockets, based off my RCBS combo swager die) and make a plug to put in the threaded hole to use the orignal primer seater punches

im going to use some O1 and harden it with a torch for the swagers

 

[hexbasher]

Done. This was pretty easy.

 

[cet]

I have used/new automation controls/sensors/relays/timers in my basement gathering dust.
PM me, if I can help, I will be glad to chip in.

I'm just south of Ottawa.

 

[Freedom Ventures]

My Dillon 1050 has a swager station. Something coming up to swage and something coming down to support the case so that's what you're trying to replicate on the LnL. The 1050's system isn't perfect, it's a "better than nothing solution." The issue with the Dillon 1050 swaging station is the different thicknesses of cases.

The tool head's die that pushes the case down in place to be swaged can't be consistently set due to variations with manufacturers' brass. With thinner cases, the case is not supported and the shell plate is stressed and will eventually break + you don't get the same amount of swage depth. With overly thick cases, it causes the press to short stroke and the primers not seat as deep as they are supposed to.

Have you figured out a way to overcome this challenge?

 

[Armedsask]

From my limited experience with the LnL, automation is a no go. I'm lucky if I can get mine to function reliably in manual operation.

 

[herpinator45]

Hexbasher.... That looks awesome.... you have really impressed me with your craftsmanship here. ( I know that means nothing... but still kudos to you )

I finally got my press running smoothly and I broke the hornady bullet feed collet

Next bit is off topic a little, but I'm still looking for your guys input

My project is kind of dead in the water right now as I will be switching to a dillon 1050 sooner than later as my back cannot handle feeding my wife and I for IPSC. (2 herniated discs and degeneration of 4 more discs..... and I'm only 27 )

So as it stands I have 4000 rounds of 9mm stockpiled, and once that is gone I will be moving over to a 1050 with auto drive and mr bulletfeeder. I already have a case pro 100 on order and that is going to auto drive the second I get it.

my next question is do I keep the LNL, as it is fully kitted out with a strong mount, roller handle, led lighting, dillon powder & primer check systems, with case and bullet feeders. Along with my case master JR

So if I sell it I can get more than half of the money towards a 1050

in addtion to the 3000 pieces of FED NT Crimped I plan on forming into .300 AAC Blackout and selling I am almost home free

 

[Freedom Ventures]

...I will be moving over to a 1050 with auto drive and mr bulletfeeder. I already have a case pro 100 on order and that is going to auto drive the second I get it.

my next question is do I keep the LNL, as it is fully kitted out with a strong mount, roller handle, led lighting, dillon powder & primer check systems, with case and bullet feeders.

I have a 1050 with Mr. Bulletfeeder and Ponnes Warren Autodrive + a bunch of personal mods to put in switches for when the bullets run out, the powder is anything but perfect and the primers run out. It's for practice ammo.
I still load my match ammo for IPSC on the manual progressive (Dillon 1000) next to it. If you can physically manage, I'd keep the LnL on the side.
Have you considered spray lube on the cases? Makes loading 9mm MUCH easier...

 

[herpinator45]

I hate to say it.... I finally got my LNL working better. Better bench, fastened to my house for stability.... I was running a solid 600 rounds an hour without using the bullet feeder. Then within the period of two days a 1050 came up on EE followed by the a PW auto drive. I haven't actually used the 1050 for loading yet, I have just been processing all the .40SW brass I have. Mr Bulletfeeder for 9mm and 223 will be here next week. I only shoot production... so it better be able the produce ammo that will outshoot me.

If anyone wants to donate money to me and in return receive 1F RP 40 or 1F RP 223 brass let me know... as I have my eyes on one of Freedom Ventures STI Rifles for 3 Gun... and I needs MONEY(IES)!!!!