Hornady Seater giving 20 thou variation.

[MHouser]

Started reloading for a 375 Ruger today.

New Hornady brass. Full length sized with new Hornady full length sizing die. Inside/outside chamfer. Did not trim. Case lengths varied by about 5 thou but within the acceptable min/max range.

Started seating bullets with a new Hornady seating die and began to measure overall length. I was seeing 25 thou variation measuring at the tip. Went to the comparator and was still seeing up to 20 thou variation in length at the ogive. Took the die apart and made sure there was nothing stuck inside and that everything seemed to be working properly. No excessive lube or anything. Checked primers to make sure they were not protruding and that I was getting a good measurement. Measured the length of the other 45 bullets remaining in the box with my comparator to see if the bullets were messed up by they were all within 0.5 thou.

One more note: The variation had a pattern. There were basically 2 groups of cartridges. Within a group there was 1-3 thou variation but there was 20 thou variation between the groups.

In my .308 I am able to achieve 0 - 1 thou variation in seating depth all day long using my Lee Dead Length seater die so this threw me for a bit of a loop.

Kind of stumped.

 

[Jordan Smith]

What bullet are you using?

Primers are seated flush or recessed into case head?

Die locking ring is tight and the die screwed in all the way?

Seater stem is locked in place?

 

[JJ-65]

How do they shoot? I find the larger bores to be fairly forgiving as to the quality of the ammo they will shoot well with.

 

[pig boots]

check your shellholder if a piece of tumbling media or primer gack got under it it can cause alot of fun

 

[ahlsy]

Are the powder charges in the larger (20 thou) group compressed? Sometimes I find that there isn't enough neck tension to keep the powder from 'pushing' the bullet back out.

 

[GeoTrekr]

I experienced the same thing with 52 gr Speer .223 HP Varmint bullets with a non-compressed load of Varget. I'd get 3 groups: Too short, just right, and too long. I thought my equipment was f*cked until I tried loading another calibre, and they were all within 0.001" COAL (.260 Rem with Berger 140 gr VLD and .357 Mag flatnose and HP).

I suspect that the angle of taper is slightly different between the 3 sets of bullets, and is resulting in the variation (since the seater doesn't push right on the tip of the bullet (otherwise this variation would be near impossible) but rather a little down from the tip along the sides).

I also noticed that this indent that formed around the tip of the bullet of my dummy calibration cartridge from being 'seated' multiple times has resulted in bullets being seated too deep when calibrated with the dummy (I have to back off a bit).

 

[MHouser]

What bullet are you using?

Primers are seated flush or recessed into case head?

Die locking ring is tight and the die screwed in all the way?

Seater stem is locked in place?

Same result with 3 different types of bullets. Hornady, nosler and barnes.

Primers are recessed.

Locking ring tight and screwed in all the way.

Seater stem floats and stopper is threaded and adjustable so im not sure what there is to lock.

 

[MHouser]

Are the powder charges in the larger (20 thou) group compressed? Sometimes I find that there isn't enough neck tension to keep the powder from 'pushing' the bullet back out.

I was varying powder weights and yes the higher ones were compressed but I didn't think to look for a relation between the 2 so I'm not sure if that could have been it.

 

[MHouser]

I suspect that the angle of taper is slightly different between the 3 sets of bullets, and is resulting in the variation (since the seater doesn't push right on the tip of the bullet (otherwise this variation would be near impossible) but rather a little down from the tip along the sides).

The variation happened with each type of bullet not across bullet types. Of course the seating depth will be different with different bullets as the ogives would be different.

 

[Jordan Smith]

I would check to see if the longer loads correlate to the compressed charges. I've seen that before, too, where the pressure from the compressed powder pushes the bullet back out a bit over time.

 

[GeoTrekr]

The variation happened with each type of bullet not across bullet types. Of course the seating depth will be different with different bullets as the ogives would be different.

That's what I meant: The cartridges that ended up too short, just right, and too long, making up the 3 sets, all using the same bullet.

 

[thump_rrr]

Did the Hornady die set come with 2 seater stems (flat and ogive type)?
I would have bet that once measured with a comparator all would have been well.
I guess I was wrong.

 

[Chinbullco]

Length of loaded rounds.

The variation happened with each type of bullet not across bullet types. Of course the seating depth will be different with different bullets as the ogives would be different.

Are you crimping your bullets? If you are, the cases need be the same length. There are detailed instructions sent with these dies and they will help you set them up properly. One thing I noticed is the bullet seat die is only three or four threads into press.

 

[Marlin45]

I also had length variations when seating Hornady FTX bullets into my 45-70 cases. I was getting huge variations, and even though the old 45-70 is a forgiving round it was driving me nuts. I suspected the RCBS die set I was using was compressing the flexible bullet tip as it was being pushed into the case. The amount of variation changed with, how fast I pulled the handle, etc. A call to the very helpfull people at Hornady tech. support confirmend my hunch and told me they made a special stem for their seating die that pushed the FTX bullet further down on the ogive of the bullet rather that the tip. Now I use RCBS Full Resizing/Depriming Die, RCBS Flaring Die, Hornady Seating Die, and Lee Factory Crimp Die. A lot of specialized dies, but now I can make a consistant 45-70 round. Anybody else run into this problem?

 

[ShootSavage]

I don't know if there's a problem with Hornady bullets but I ran into the same thing the last time I reloaded for my 300 win mag, I was loading Hornady 165 gr GMX bullets and the OAL varied 5 to 7 thou of an inch, I like to keep the OAL 2 thou back from the lands I had one jam in the gun (that's how I noticed the problem) it wasn't jammed very tight but it did jam in there a little bit just the same. Oh I use RCBS dies

 

[MHouser]

Finally had time to sit down and figure out what's going on here as, subsequent to my last post, I purchased a Forster micrometer seater for my .308 and it had the same problem (i.e. variable seating depth, like 15+ thou variance).

Here's the problem...

There is a big difference in the design of the lee bullet seating die that I'm using and having great consistency with, compared to the hornady and forster dies. With the lee, the shell holder contacts the fixed/hard bottom surface of the die when the ram is all the way up (i.e. very consistent stoping surface). With the hornady and forster dies, there is a floating sleeve and there is no hard contact between the shell holder and the die. The depth that the bullet gets seater is a function of how consistent your press is wrt raising the ram to its maximum height.

With my cheap lee press (btw: about to be demoted to universal decapping tasks only), depending on how hard I pull the handle, that maximum can vary quite a bit (i.e. 15 thou+).

Wow, I feel much better now and have an excuse to buy a new press.

Do you think the Rockchucker Supreme would be better in this regard than my lee challenger or should I just go for it and get the Forster Co-ax? Don't really want to spend the money if I don't need to.

 

[BCBRAD]

I would check to see if the longer loads correlate to the compressed charges. I've seen that before, too, where the pressure from the compressed powder pushes the bullet back out a bit over time.

measure from cartridge base to bullet ogive, bullets tend not to be all the same length, but thats OK the distance from the lands is what you should be concerned with

 

[MHouser]

measure from cartridge base to bullet ogive, bullets tend not to be all the same length, but thats OK the distance from the lands is what you should be concerned with

Thanks for the input but we've been through compressed loads, loose locking rings, bullet ogive, protruding primers, etc. already. My post is saying I found the problem and I was explaining that is was an issue with the press itself.

 

[joe-nwt]

Finally had time to sit down and figure out what's going on here as, subsequent to my last post, I purchased a Forster micrometer seater for my .308 and it had the same problem (i.e. variable seating depth, like 15+ thou variance).

Here's the problem...

There is a big difference in the design of the lee bullet seating die that I'm using and having great consistency with, compared to the hornady and forster dies. With the lee, the shell holder contacts the fixed/hard bottom surface of the die when the ram is all the way up (i.e. very consistent stoping surface). With the hornady and forster dies, there is a floating sleeve and there is no hard contact between the shell holder and the die. The depth that the bullet gets seater is a function of how consistent your press is wrt raising the ram to its maximum height.

With my cheap lee press (btw: about to be demoted to universal decapping tasks only), depending on how hard I pull the handle, that maximum can vary quite a bit (i.e. 15 thou+).

Wow, I feel much better now and have an excuse to buy a new press.

Do you think the Rockchucker Supreme would be better in this regard than my lee challenger or should I just go for it and get the Forster Co-ax? Don't really want to spend the money if I don't need to.

You've just shattered many illusions........