How Accurate is accurate !?

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hotguns

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Hi guys, I have a small question regarding the accuracy concept !

My gunsmith put in my mind that I need something better to satisfy my shooting dream.
I 'm about to start a Project and get myself a expensive long range custom Rifle. ( Kreiger Bbl, Nesika Action, MC milan stock)

I presently shoot a 700P and I'm satisfied by the accuracy but I would like to do one step above.

My point is, I have seen two guy at the range the other day with 2 super gun( expensive riggs) One H-S and the other one Accuracy int. both 308.

We were shooting at 100 yard.

The group those guy were printing were good, 3/4 to 1/2 '' steady.

The thing is that I already do that kind of grouping with my remmy...

Does that kind of grouping is good to very good !? Or in the average.
Does they should do better...

Am I gonna shoot one hole with my 4 K custom riggs ? or I will just do 1/4'', smaller cloverleaf to one hole !?

The real question is , what is the Accuracy you should get out of those 4-5 K rifle !?

If 1/4'' is what you should expect of those rifle I'm not exited, I got that with the 1K Rem !

I mean in that case I will just swap the Remmy Bbl once it will be done and continue my shooting with more money for the ammo.

PS: Feel free to show me your grouping to gave me an Idea of what is accuracy... all at 100 yard please, that's the only distance we have at the range... I know.

Thanks for your 2 cents ! :)
 
depends on the load, depends on the shooter. what answer are you expecting? I'm guessing your not going to see a big difference until your shooting 300y +

"will I just do 1/4" ..... are you expecting 1/8" ? 1/16"?

I'm sure you will be reminded to post your results as a stock 1/4moa rem will have a lot of people doubting your claims, and I'm going to guess that you'l also be reminded that 1/4 at 100yards doesnt mean a 1/4moa gun... try getting to 300+ yards and see if your stock 700 stays 1/4moa
 
wingsuit said:
depends on the load, depends on the shooter. what answer are you expecting? I'm guessing your not going to see a big difference until your shooting 300y +

"will I just do 1/4" ..... are you expecting 1/8" ? 1/16"?

I'm sure you will be reminded to post your results as a stock 1/4moa rem will have a lot of people doubting your claims, and I'm going to guess that you'l also be reminded that 1/4 at 100yards doesnt mean a 1/4moa gun... try getting to 300+ yards and see if your stock 700 stays 1/4moa
Click to expand...

X2................

Also, are you shooting from a nice solid bench with nice solid shooting rests, or from the prone position off of a bipod................your groups will change using different rests/positions


If you are shooting at least 5 round 1/4" groups everytime with a stock Rem700P, then I say you would have a factory freak..................and not to change a thing !!!!!!!! ;) ..............a good test would be to shoot your current out to 500 or 600 meters and see how it does..............if it consistently holds 1/2 MOA out to those distances, I would just leave it alone.........(1/2 MOA being 2.5" groups @ 500 meters, and 3" groups at 600 meters......) ......................Just because your current rig shoots 1/4" groups at 100 meters/yards, doesn't mean it will do similar things at longer ranges.......;)

Most long range custom build don't shine until you start reaching out past 300 meters..............
 
No gunsmith can guarantee you 1/4 MOA or less rifle for that kind of money. You can hire the best one and hope for it, but there is to many variables and parts to guarantee that kind of result including the shooter. It's luck of the Irish, for instance some $1000 Savages will shoot 1/4 MOA right from the factory and custom $4000 rifle could be just 1 MOA or so. In my search for decent target rifle I ended up with 308Win LH Sportco 44 with S&L barrel and 12X40 AO Weaver scope for 1" grups at 300yds when calm and when I do my part. Total cost: $ 750 or so and that's plenty good enough for me. Couple of months ago in EE I saw single shot S&L rifle in 308 Norma for $1000 or so and if I were on the market for LR gun, that one would have best accuracy potential for very reasonable expense.
 
I seriously doubt your Remington is a 1/4 minute rifle...

To determine how accurate it is... shoot 5 separate 5 shot groups at one hundred yards. Measure each group from the center of the two bullet holes the farthest apart in that group. You measure in one thousands of an inch with a caliper.

Add the five measurements together and divide by 5... If that figure equals .250" you have a rifle that shot 1/4 minute for 5 targets.

They are not many precision rifles in .308 that will do that regularly let alone many shooters.
 
sounds like you have the right gun for your range,don't go spending 4k on a rifle when you are happy with the results your remmy is giving you. If you really want to have more fun go buy a cz 452 22lr and see if you can shoot it at 1moa at 100yards, that would be a challlange. unless you are going to start shooting longer ranges don't spend the doe. You can probably tighten your groups with better ammo, saves you spending thousands on a rifle. Try finding some Hornady Match ammo or Ruag Match ammo. you should group 1/2 inch without too much trouble
 
Up to a certain point the action means very little in the whole equation of accuracy. I have seen guys shoot just as good with Musgrave actions as well as RPA actions. The barrel, bedding and bullet means more. There is nothing wrong with a trued Remington action and a good barrel. For about $600 a new barrel will do wonders over a factory pipe and will save you $3400 over a 4K rig to get the same results.
I do agree with everyone above when it comes to shooting 100 yards. Get out and shoot 300-1000 yards and see what your rifle can really do. 3 shot groups won't tell you much unless you are shooting a hunting rifle. Try some 10 shot groups and report back.
 
Here is a video of custom vs factory barrel. Watching it I find it surprising that factory guns actually shoot as well as they do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf9zZqn00CA

If your rifle is doing what you want it to do then there is no need to rebarrel it. The improvement if any would be pretty marginal at 100 Yards. You may notice a significant improvement at extended range, but if you are not doing this type of shooting then there is not much point.

Base your purchase on your needs, not on what someone wants to sell you.
 
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I don't know, I think you should just keep your rem 700 the way it is and play with handloads, that can sqeeze your already small groups.

This is the way i look at it, If you're out to get a really fast car and can buy a corvette that can go 320km/h for 30k, or a ferrari that can do 330km/h for 300k, Based on your objective, what would you do?
 
Zokakoka said:
This is the way i look at it, If you're out to get a really fast car and can buy a corvette that can go 320km/h for 30k, or a ferrari that can do 330km/h for 300k, Based on your objective, what would you do?
Click to expand...

But which car will pick up the most Chicks................The Vette or the Ferrari.................;)

and I think we both know the answer to that one.......:D
 
Depends alot on what you are building.

If you want a tactical style rifle shooting off a bipod, then 1/4 minute is very good consistent accurcacy and can be achieved with a quality barrel, chamber and proper handloads. But, it will be demanding to keep this level of accuracy up.

If you want one hole groups, then look at the SR BR stuff. 6PPC, 30BR, even the 6BR are more then capable of driving them ALL into 1 hole at 100yds IF you can shoot.

SR BR guys are shooting groups in competition that are in the sized in the ZERO's. 1/4 min is time for a new barrel.

Just depends on what you want to do.

Jerry

Skullboy, my bet is your can get more chicks into a Vette vs a pranching horse.
 
Yea, in BR 1/4 groups don't win anything. 1/2 MOA groups are disaster. .2s is good, .1s is really good, sub .1 is screemer.

I used to be proud of my groups in the .3 range, really working on shrinking those down so I can actually be competitive with the BR guys.
 
When a guy wants accuracy I like to ask the question...
Accurate where??? close medium or far?

Guns that are idealized for 100 yard are awfull at long range.
Guns that can be great at long range can appear a bit disapointing at 100
Then you can go with something more toward the middle and try to extract the best of both worlds. Basically you are trying to balance the bullet weight to the distance you like to shoot accurately - accuracy is found by a balance between velocity, barrel twist rate and bullet weight. Only once in a great while will you come accross a long range rig that drives tacks at 100.

In my mind its easier to get good groups up close because velocity variation does not translate to any significate vertical - one the other hand- at 1000 yards - shot to shot velocity consistancy is critical or else you will have verticals.

Also keep in mind that the gun itself is only the beginning. You then need the full monty on the reloading bench.

Even a very good long range rifle should be able to produce 1/2 moa at 100 yards - anything better than that is a bonus. Any worse and you should take it up with your gunsmith or barrel maker. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you should find some newby to buy your low round count barrel.
 
guntech said:
I seriously doubt your Remington is a 1/4 minute rifle...

To determine how accurate it is... shoot 5 separate 5 shot groups at one hundred yards. Measure each group from the center of the two bullet holes the farthest apart in that group. You measure in one thousands of an inch with a caliper.

Add the five measurements together and divide by 5... If that figure equals .250" you have a rifle that shot 1/4 minute for 5 targets.

They are not many precision rifles in .308 that will do that regularly let alone many shooters.
Click to expand...


:owned: newbie
 
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