How complicated is Silver Soldering ?

Hungry

Hungry

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Presently my wife's front "tenon" sight on her 1911 slide likes to come loose, very frequently. I've been staking it down once a week and quite often it shoots loose, AGAIN.

Solution: Likely look into silver soldering if it does not affect the heat treating, I hope.

Another solution: it's been suggested that I have the "dovetail" cut and install a dovetailed front sight.... I'm also considering that operation.... most likely after the first weekend in May.

Suggestions ?
 
"dovetail" cut
You can change the front sight yourself afterward and make front sight adjustment, the cut might cost you 50-70$, Call Epps there in Ontario
Ben

Editted by Hungry: No kidding, eh ? Epps can do such a thing ? And also provide a correct height front sight ? This makes life easier.....
 
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To attempt silver brazing, you'd need a burner, that can heat up the parts to about 1200°F, silver alloy and silver flux. You'll end up buying $100 worth or tools and materials and spend countless hours learning.

IIRC the melting temp of silver alloy is beyond annealing point of carbon steel.

I'd suggest regular tin/lead solder instead - it's strong enough to keep the sight in place and does not require that much heat. Mistakes can be easily corrected. If you've never done brazing or soldering on cabon steel before, take your rifle to a gunsmith.
 
Hungry said:
No kidding, eh ? Epps can do such a thing ? And also provide a correct height front sight ? This makes life easier.....
Click to expand...

Not that easy, chances of them having a front sight in stock is not good.
Best bet would be to use this opportunity to order and install a new set of sights.
 
Hungry said:
Presently my wife's front "tenon" sight on her 1911 slide likes to come loose, very frequently. I've been staking it down once a week and quite often it shoots loose, AGAIN.

Solution: Likely look into silver soldering if it does not affect the heat treating, I hope.

Another solution: it's been suggested that I have the "dovetail" cut and install a dovetailed front sight.... I'm also considering that operation.... most likely after the first weekend in May.

Suggestions ?
Click to expand...

"Silver soldering" is brazing. Requires a fuel/oxygen torch. Temperature-wise it is a step short of welding, and will detemper the steel in the locality of the "soldering". Any flux or pickling would remove or damage the finish, but this would not matter much as the finish would have to be removed for proper "soldering" anyway.

If you are already staking it, soft solder (like plumber's solder) might be worth a try. This only requires a propane torch, and is low enough temperature that it will hopefully not do any damage. Fluxes may still damage the finish. The finish would again have to be removed for the solder to adhere properly, but even if it is not, the soft solder may fill in enough of the gaps to make a mechanical hold on the sight.

In any event, neither operation is something you should contemplate trying yourself without extensive experience soldering in general and some experience working on firearms in particular.

Your best bet is probably getting a new set of sights installed by a reputable pistolsmith.
 
You could use a silver bearing solder instead of silver braze. It is simple to use and doesn't need to get hot enough to affect heat treatment. Tix and StayBright are two common good quality ones. You can also get silver bearing paste with the flux combined with it, even easier to use. Canadain Tire often has it if you look. Silver bearing solders are much stronger than tin/lead solders and combined with staking the sight, are unlikely to come apart.
Tin the sight, stake it in place and then solder. You can do it with a propane plumber's torch although it is easier with a better torch.
 
Use loctite red. It will glue the sight in place, its cheap, and you heat it up a bit and you can remove the sight later if you like.
 
I took my slide to a local welder. One zap with his TIG and it was done. a MIG will work just as well. Very little heat transfer to rest of slide as we are just talking a zap.

You do need someone that has a bit of finess. You also may have to do some work to get the bushing to fit in (remove excess weld).

Jerry
 
Wow! All kinds of neat suggestions. My Science Dept folks at my high school are offering their soldering irons.... Dunno how that would hold the tenon'ed front sight in place. Yuk, yuk, yuk. And I have a pile of RED LocTite kicking around. Might try that approach first since it's not so permanent !

Cheers and keep the suggestions coming.

Barney
 
Anvil and 10X are both right on. I prefer tinning with silver solder as it's more permanent but I've also used Loctite for a quick job (two years ago now) and it seemed to stay put. Getting good surface contact is important when tinning the sight so use the flux and "scratch" the solder in with a nail or piece of wire if it doesn't appear to flow evenly.
 
Just to bring all of you kind people up do date....

I arrived home and RED Loctite'd the front sight tenon... AFTER giving it a whack and staking it further.

I've got a few hot loads to put through the 9mm pistol on Wed to test this latest upgrade/fix. This 9mm spits out a plated 9mm 115 gr. bullet at 1250 to 1300 fps.. Kinda like a +P+ load. Yup, I've got Shok-Buff installed already.

NOW, if and only if the front sight shakes loose, then the slide is going to Gunnar at www.armco-guns.com for a dovetail'ed $ 100 job. This pistol is worth the upgrade.... It's my wife's ... yuk, yuk.

TTYL,
Barney
 
Barney:
Another option is to use Acra-Glas with a tint base. Use the liquid and let it flow under the sight base. Using the release agent prevents the compound from sticking to unwanted areas. Just my 2 cents...
 
pengfire said:
Anvil and 10X are both right on. I prefer tinning with silver solder as it's more permanent but I've also used Loctite for a quick job (two years ago now) and it seemed to stay put. Getting good surface contact is important when tinning the sight so use the flux and "scratch" the solder in with a nail or piece of wire if it doesn't appear to flow evenly.
Click to expand...

If the metal doesn't tin quickly and evenly when it is up to "heat", the metal is dirty. There was a butcher who used to bring me new bandsaw blade,cut to length and I would silver solder it for him. He couldn't figure out why he couldn't do it after watching me do it a couple of times. I watched him and figured out that it was grease from his fingers. He would brush the joint with a finger after cleaning it and just before soldering. He quit doing that and his joints soldered evenly and held.
 
No kidding - can I silver solder a band saw blade? My metal blade just broke at the weld and I was debating with myself if I was not too lazy to return it to Buzzy Bee.
 
Where in Ontario are you? Gunco in Ottawa does dovetail slide cuts for about $40 is I recall. This is really the way to go - these days any decent 1911 uses dovetailed front sights.
 
Bandsaw blades are routinely silver soldered. You can buy bladestock in coils and make blades as needed, or repair broken ones. You have to form a long bevel on both ends so there is an overlap in the splice. A jig will be needed to hold the ends in position. Surface must be clean. Flux. I put a small slip of sheet silver in the joint, then heat. If the blade is under 1/2" a propane torch will do, otherwise use MAPP gas. Clean up and dress the joint as necessary so that blade thickness is uniform - no lump at the splice. There is a bit of a trick to splicing blades, but it isn't rocket science. If it doesn't work, just cut it off and try again. The joint must be clean, with a good mechanical fit, and don't overheat. Done properly, you will see the silver flow perfectly.
Siver soldering front sights on slides is a long established practice, and requires red heat, of course, generally using an o/a torch with a small tip. Often the slide is refinished as part of the job. Comments have been made about the effect of silver soldering on heat treatment, because the heat required is past any tempering point. Of course, heating is localized. But is there any particular heat treatment in a slide, or in that part of the slide? I don't know. Does anyone have any specific information?
 
svt-40 said:
No kidding - can I silver solder a band saw blade? My metal blade just broke at the weld and I was debating with myself if I was not too lazy to return it to Buzzy Bee.
Click to expand...

The blade has to be cut on the diagonal. A square butt joint will not last as long as the blade but it will work if your bandsaw pulleys are big enough.
And for metal cutting the joint has to be welded. I'm not sure about blades for wood. For meat cutting it seemed to work fine.
 
tiriaq said:
Of course, heating is localized. But is there any particular heat treatment in a slide, or in that part of the slide? I don't know. Does anyone have any specific information?
Click to expand...

Early 1911 slides were spot heat treated at high stress areas, but not the whole slide. Areas of concern included the rails, the contour of the ejectcion port, the prat of the slide that recocks the hammer, etc.

That being said, early slides are notorious for cracking and excessive wear if shot too much ;)

Modern slides are generally given a modern uniform heat treating an silver soldering WILL affect it. That being said, I don't know of the bushing area is sensitive to heat treat problems or not??
 
Super, thanks for the info! I will try to solder my metal blade and see how it works, as I am not doing heavy duty cuts. Should be Okay for small sheets and rods I am cutting. In the end, if it does not work, I can take it to be welded.
 
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