How do i start casting? 22 Velo dog (.229-.237)

TheCanAm

TheCanAm

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Please help:
I purchased an antique 22 Velo Dog and managed to find dies (CH4D) and brass (Schroeder Bullets who made them from 22 hornet). Now I need to make bullets. Even though documents online say it is. 225, I slugged the barrel to find that land to land is .237, grooves around .229. I need a 40-45 grain bullet.

Now, where do I begin???
 
Do a search on Castboolits for the old group buy for a 225107 mold by NOE (Night Owl Enterprises). Or check their website.

If that bullet shape suits you, contact them and see if they will run a custom oversize mold for you, likely as a plain base. They had ran some oversize to suit the Savage .22 High Power reloaders, at .228". It's a pretty straightforward programming change, the hard part is getting it slid in to the schedule.

Other wise, it's a search for suitable mold, as well as for someone to open it up enough to suit your bore. The molds with potential to be suitable would likely be the .225438, the 225107, and the 225415 though that last may be a bit heavy. The 225438 is still made, as is the 225415. They would all need to be opened up for your purposes.

Then you will also probably want a custom sizing die too (easy, open up a .224" or .225" one).

This, all in addition to having to learn how to cast a good, small bullet. Fun!

edit: Another avenue worth a look might be to learn about paper patching, and wrap some available .225 size cast bullets up to the size you need, or have a swage die built to swage your own lead slugs that could be paper patched. The forces for swaging a lead slug of this size are well withing the reach of most reloading presses, and if paper patching, you do not need lube grooves etc. It would be a little fiddly to learn on the small slugs, but do-able.
The bullet can be as simple as a straight sided, flat on both ends, slug.


Cheers
Trev
 
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You might have to get a custom mold for that bullet if you want it to fit your pistol. Mountain Molds website lets you design your own mold online. It's quite easy.
 
Thank you all for the great information!! That gives me multiple avenues to try.

One more tag on question: because of the low power, some talked about a jacketed bullet for better penetration. If I could figure out how to swage/cast & jacket it, how much thickness on average would a jacket add? My thought is... can I take a .224 or .225 and jacket it to get something close to .230 +/-?
 
TheCanAm said:
Thank you all for the great information!! That gives me multiple avenues to try.

One more tag on question: because of the low power, some talked about a jacketed bullet for better penetration. If I could figure out how to swage/cast & jacket it, how much thickness on average would a jacket add? My thought is... can I take a .224 or .225 and jacket it to get something close to .230 +/-?
Click to expand...

Doesn't work that way.

You make or buy the jackets, you swage a core in to the jacket, and swage the final shape and size of the bullet, in different steps. The jackets can be commercially made, recycled materials like parts of fired shotgun primers or .22 shell cases, or a total DIY effort from flat stock with some deep drawing dies.

If the effort and cost of casting looks like too much, then swaging jacketed bullets is really not gonna be your thing. A set of swage dies for jacketed bullets will run you the best part of a grand, and a year or more waiting for the maker to get around to it, unless you do it yourself. You can read some about the process on the two Corbin brothers respective sites, IIRC, swage.com and RCECO.com.

Swaging a straight sided lead slug, can be done with some pretty basic gear though. Still need someone to make the stuff if you cannot or will not. Old school BP target shooters were swaging lead bullets using hammers and some pretty rudimentary dies, over the past several hundred years.

Casting is likely your best and cheapest bet, but even that is not going to be cheap or easy, just cheaper and easier than the other ways.

If it was easy, everyone would be doing it!

Cheers
Trev
 
TheCanAm said:
Thank you all for the great information!! That gives me multiple avenues to try.

One more tag on question: because of the low power, some talked about a jacketed bullet for better penetration. If I could figure out how to swage/cast & jacket it, how much thickness on average would a jacket add? My thought is... can I take a .224 or .225 and jacket it to get something close to .230 +/-?
Click to expand...

A jacket probably won't improve penetration a lot. Lead and low alloys penetrate surprisingly well at antique pistol velocity without a jacket. Just don't expect to use it for big game hunting. :)
 
If it is at all accurate I might try it on grouse but for the most part it will be a relatively inexpensive fun sidearm in the woods. I think "big game" would mistake it for a mosquito bite :D

Progress!! I lucked out with an NOE group buy happening now! I ordered a .228 45grain WFN PB, requested to be made oversized.

We'll see what they can do.

It's a lot of work to get this "noisy cricket" working.
 
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Casting certainly isn't difficult, and doesn't have to be expensive. LBT will make you a very good mold, any size you want at no extra charge. Get a small(4" dia.) stainless steel pot(garage sale?), a hot plate(electric or other), a casting dipper(Lyman or RCBS), and a Lee bullet sizer which you may have to special order in the size you want. Then you just need suitable lead alloy, which depends on what this firearm is - rifle or handgun, and on the velocity you're trying to achieve.
Grouch
 
TheCanAm said:
If it is at all accurate I might try it on grouse but for the most part it will be a relatively inexpensive fun sidearm in the woods. I think "big game" would mistake it for a mosquito bite :D

Progress!! I lucked out with an NOE group buy happening now! I ordered a .228 45grain WFN PB, requested to be made oversized.


It's a lot of work to get this "noisy cricket" working.
Click to expand...

Not to be a spoil-sport, but BC is pretty tight-arsed about the use of any handguns on game. Includes pellet pistols. Read the regs. Be aware, choose according to your willingness to risk it.

Cheers
Trev
 
Trev,

Thank you for the warning. I will investigate before using it in such a manner. What gave me the impression that it would be kosher is that Matthew, one of the Canadian Reload Radio hosts (now on Slam Fire Radio), got the green light to hunt with an CO2 pistol. He ran it all the way up the chain of command. However, he is not in BC.

Thanks,
Aaron
 
Yeah, the hunting regs are Provincial and the rules vary a lot between the Provinces.

I have, in the past years, lived in Quebec, Ontario, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and BC, and the differences between them when you need to figger out the Regs to keep legal, can give you a few headaches. :)

Cheers
Trev
 
Update:
So I ordered an oversized .228 WFN PB mould from NOE and I think Al forgot to make it oversized. I asked him if it might drop a little larger and he said if I add tin or linotype then it might drop at .229. From your guys' experience, will that work? If it works will it for well in a bit that has grooves just barely touching .229?
Thanks for the help!
 
Unless you are in total control of the metals you are alloying, you might be hit or miss.

Go to castboolits, you can lap your mold to get a few thou more...you should be able to send your mold back...pita but probably the best route.
 
I wouldn't recommend a .22" size bullet as a newbie's first introduction to casting. Be prepared for frustration, as casting good, usable .22x" bullets can be quite challenging. Lapping is probably your best bet. NOE moulds are pretty good. Have fun with yours!
 
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