How do you headspace a Shilen on a Savage?

TargetNorth

TargetNorth

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Hi Guys

I'm at the "headspace" portion of my Savage build, with a Shilen barrel in 6BR. I have 100 cases of new Lapua brass.

I have been shown how, but just want to clarify.

I intend to headspace on a new piece of brass. To do this, I have removed the extractor (ejector? tang on the side that pulls the brass out of the chamber?). Next, I put a brass in the chamber and close the bolt. Then, I tighten the barrel onto the action so it is snug against the bolt/case. Then, I made a small mark on the barrel/barrel nut so I can have a reference point.

When I try different combinations of headspace, I find that I'm just at the point where I can feel the bolt closing on the case. If there is about 1/16th of more "tightness" on the barrel (as per the marks I made) it is stiff to tighten. If there is about 1/16th less of tightness, I can't feel the case at all.

What are people's thoughts on this method.

I have read that I should take out the firing pin/spring, and I am wondering why this is.

I have also heard that this method means I can ONLY shoot on this brass, and that if I try to shoot factory ammo I will be under headspace specs. I'm OK with that. Also, I intend to neck size until it's hard to chamber then bump the shoulder, I don't intend to full length size.

I've also heard that headspaceing without a go/nogo gauge is kinda like wandering around on a highway blindfolded.

Thanks,
Barry
 
i have never done this before but i hear that the brass would work as your go gauge then if you put a piece of masking tape on the case where the headstamp is that would work as your no go.. dont take my advise i have no clue what i am doing i am interested in reading to see if what i was told was anywhere near correct. jerry will be on here soon to tell us how its all done.
 
I've done one using a go gauge and another using a full sized piece of brass to set up the head space same as the dies. In each case (excuse pun) I added 2 thou of tape to make the no go gauge.

I think in future I would always do them using brass to be close to my full length dies.


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TargetNorth said:
Hi Guys

I'm at the "headspace" portion of my Savage build, with a Shilen barrel in 6BR. I have 100 cases of new Lapua brass.

I have been shown how, but just want to clarify.

I intend to headspace on a new piece of brass. To do this, I have removed the extractor (ejector? tang on the side that pulls the brass out of the chamber?). Next, I put a brass in the chamber and close the bolt. Then, I tighten the barrel onto the action so it is snug against the bolt/case. Then, I made a small mark on the barrel/barrel nut so I can have a reference point.

When I try different combinations of headspace, I find that I'm just at the point where I can feel the bolt closing on the case. If there is about 1/16th of more "tightness" on the barrel (as per the marks I made) it is stiff to tighten. If there is about 1/16th less of tightness, I can't feel the case at all.

What are people's thoughts on this method.

I have read that I should take out the firing pin/spring, and I am wondering why this is.

I have also heard that this method means I can ONLY shoot on this brass, and that if I try to shoot factory ammo I will be under headspace specs. I'm OK with that. Also, I intend to neck size until it's hard to chamber then bump the shoulder, I don't intend to full length size.

I've also heard that headspaceing without a go/nogo gauge is kinda like wandering around on a highway blindfolded.

Thanks,
Barry
Click to expand...

I recently swapped a barrel for the first time, so what I have to say may not be the gospel, so take it for what it is....internet advice from a random stranger.:) The rifle I swapped a barrel on was a Marlin XL-7, which use the same type barrel nut. If you remove the ejector from the bolt (little button/rod below the firing pin hole) it keeps the case from wanting to constantly eject. With it out, it stays sitting on the bolt easily. I used a sized casing for my swap as well.

When you pull the guts out of the bolt, it will no longer have any resistance while opening or closing, as it is no longer setting the firing pin.

When you go to set the headspace, my understanding is, that with the guts out of the bolt, the bolt will go forward and down easily....just barely. Now with a piece of tape on the back of the cartridge, the bolt will go forward easily, and make it about half way down and stop by itself. Don't force it....you're where you need to be.

I also tend to believe my headspace is below factory specs this way, but I reload only, so doesn't matter. Since the swap I've put 15 rounds through, followed by a test to destruction on 3 casings....I quit at 13x fired for the 3 casings because they don't look any different than after the first sizing. This might answer the blind man on the highway question.:)

Again, this is just random guy from the internet advice, so follow at your own risk.
 
You should always use proper headspace gauges.

We require a waiver whenever selling drop-in barrels, because done improperly this can result in catastrophic failure of a firearm.
 
Removing a plunger style ejector is a good idea. Really changes the feel when closing if it is in place.
 
If you can feel the stripped bolt close on a fully sized case the headspace will be safe. The cartridge head clearance will be considered zero. Don't adjust it so it is hard to close the bolt as you may have problem down the road in the ability to size a case enough (or bump the shoulder) that has been fired several times.

I prefer to use a steel go gauge and set it so you feel the stripped bolt close on the steel go gauge.
 
guntech said:
.....I prefer to use a steel go gauge and set it so you feel the stripped bolt close on the steel go gauge.
Click to expand...

That's how I set my own rifles.

If it is a general purpose hunting rifle, might be better to set the headspace so that a Go can't be felt, but the bolt won't close on a No Go. Then you won't risk being faced with a standard cartridge that won't chamber.

And, of course, a light touch is used when testing with gauges.
 
Hmmm... Thanks for all the info.

So, How does one full size a case that has never been fired... if firing it requires headspacing it off a fully sized case? Chickens and eggs here.

Any idea where to get a 6BR go gauge?

Thanks for everyone's time,

Barry
 
Running virgin brass as far as you can into a full length sizing die guarantees it is fully sized.

There are no US restrictions on exporting go gauges.

Try Pacific Tool and Gauge in Oregon.
 
With a prechambered barrel, the first thing I confirm is the dimensions of the chamber. Assume nothing, measure everything.

I want my "go guage" to be an exact fit to the chamber so I will size a case or choose a guage as needed for a precise fit. I am setting the headspace off a chamber using an appropriately sized guage. Not the other way around.

In general, companies making prefit barrels stay well within SAAMI specs BUT you just never know.

With my properly fitting guage, the feel that is described between a go and no go gauge is correct. Yes, a case and a piece of tape will replicate the same thing. Just check it a few times and AFTER the nut has been tightened. IT WILL CHANGE.

As to catastrophic failure, ummmmm. Here are some facts.

If a go guage is considered ZERO, a no go guage is 3thou for a 223 and 4 thou for a 308 LONGER

A FIELD guage is 6 thou and 8 thou, respectively, LONGER then the go guage. Would you want to have that much headspace in a rifle, NO. New brass WILL expand and seal but the web will be stretched. Oversizing will immediately lead to head separation ON THE NEXT FIRING.

With attention to detail, the odds of missing a no go chamber and moving to field guage is slim but if a mistake were to occur, the brass will take it if new. You'll have a super long case but it will not BLOW UP.

Odd are the firing pin will not hit the primer hard enough to ignite but if it did, the super flattened primer and stretch marks on the case would be pretty clear warnings something is amiss.

I can offer Forster headspace guages and any professionally manf SAAMI spec guage is a good idea to have and use. BE SAFE....

YMMV.

Jerry
 
I recently changed my barrel with a Shilen. I actually had all 3 forster gauges (go, no go, field) for piece of mind. The extractor (claw that holds the cartridge rim) can stay in the bolt, but you need to remove the ejector (nub in the boltface) because it would otherwise push on the chamber gauge, and the firing pin, as discussed above. Use gentle pressure when chambering the gauges.

Having the go and no go gauges gave me confidence. (I didn't end up needing the field gauge). After everything was tightened, but with the bolt still sans ejector and firing pin, I found the bolt still closed on the go gauge, but hardly started on the no go gauge before encountering resistance.
 
Hi Everyone

I figured it all out. I set the headspace for 2-3 tho more then the unfired brass. The bolt won't close on 4-5 tho more (the limit of my measuring ability).

I fired off 20 rounds as such, and it worked great with no change in headspace over the 20 rounds.

Beautiful gun, the first 17 were all pressure tests, the first ones shot in a set of big tires with a string pulling the trigger. The last three went into one jagged hole at 100m... Yippee!!

I'll post picks once I get it all dialed in.
 
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