My scoped No.4 I have is a pretty accurate rifle, and I would like to open up the distance between me and the target. What is the max range you all shoot at with your No.4? I use Winchester Super-x 180g SP, and they work really well. The range I go to goes out to about 250 yards.
How far do you shoot your No.4?
- Thread starter LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1
- Start date
ballistics of the 303 Brit and the 308 Win are pretty close. If you consider your rifle to be a decent shooter, the same ranges apply. Some fellows use the 308 Win out to 1000meters with good success.
It all depends on how well you've got your rifle shooting and how well you know it. It also depends on how well you can dope the wind and mirage at longer ranges. Some bullets have a tendency to drift into the twist at longer ranges as well. If you're going to shoot extreme ranges, you will have to invest in good bullets with concentric jacket thicknesses as well. Long range shooting is a whole different ball game, there are very many factors to take into account if you want to be successful.
There are many volumes written on long range shooting. Go to the ranges and matches that host the shoots and watch. Talk to a few of the shooters there. They will be only to happy to show you what's involved. They're always looking for new blood.
Just get one thing straight in your head though, once you get started on the accuracy trail, one inch groups just don't cut it anymore. You will never be satisfied with off the shelf rifles again. Some think this is BS but if you get really serious about it, you will always be pursuing that elusive combination that will give you a consistant one holer. Learning to adjust the paralax on your scope can take up a couple of months. It changes with conditions and your particular eyesight.
I won't delve deeper into it. Figure out whether or not you're going to use micrometer adjustable iron sights or AO adjustable scopes.
I won't even get into triggers. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is a good place to start. If your $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ are in short supply, stick with what you have and be happy with it. I know a few fellows that buy a dozen match barrels at a pop. They high grade the batch when it comes in and flog the rest, usually for substantially less than they pay for them. It's darn tough to compete with someone that has this kind of $$$$$$$$$$$. It boils down to an equipment race in many cases. I have a 303 Brit that was built with a Shilen match grade barrel. It was contoured to look exactly like a military barrel, right down to the bayonet lugs and knox. It has a .308 bore, a tight chamber and headspace. The necks need to be turned to chamber the cartridge. It shoots like a dream. It's also glass and cork bedded. By the way, it's still chambered for 303 Brit, it just uses .308 diameter bullets, mainly because good bullets are easier to find.
It all depends on how well you've got your rifle shooting and how well you know it. It also depends on how well you can dope the wind and mirage at longer ranges. Some bullets have a tendency to drift into the twist at longer ranges as well. If you're going to shoot extreme ranges, you will have to invest in good bullets with concentric jacket thicknesses as well. Long range shooting is a whole different ball game, there are very many factors to take into account if you want to be successful.
There are many volumes written on long range shooting. Go to the ranges and matches that host the shoots and watch. Talk to a few of the shooters there. They will be only to happy to show you what's involved. They're always looking for new blood.
Just get one thing straight in your head though, once you get started on the accuracy trail, one inch groups just don't cut it anymore. You will never be satisfied with off the shelf rifles again. Some think this is BS but if you get really serious about it, you will always be pursuing that elusive combination that will give you a consistant one holer. Learning to adjust the paralax on your scope can take up a couple of months. It changes with conditions and your particular eyesight.
I won't delve deeper into it. Figure out whether or not you're going to use micrometer adjustable iron sights or AO adjustable scopes.
I won't even get into triggers. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is a good place to start. If your $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ are in short supply, stick with what you have and be happy with it. I know a few fellows that buy a dozen match barrels at a pop. They high grade the batch when it comes in and flog the rest, usually for substantially less than they pay for them. It's darn tough to compete with someone that has this kind of $$$$$$$$$$$. It boils down to an equipment race in many cases. I have a 303 Brit that was built with a Shilen match grade barrel. It was contoured to look exactly like a military barrel, right down to the bayonet lugs and knox. It has a .308 bore, a tight chamber and headspace. The necks need to be turned to chamber the cartridge. It shoots like a dream. It's also glass and cork bedded. By the way, it's still chambered for 303 Brit, it just uses .308 diameter bullets, mainly because good bullets are easier to find.
I know a gent who has shot No 4 rifles out to 1000 yards. He said he reloaded using Mk8 boat tail bullets and had great success with them.
The Rangers use a plain jane No4mk1* all the way out to 500m with good success for the CFSAC competitions (using the issued iron sites to boot). I'm not sure if they're using the FMJ issued ammo or the round nose, I suspect it's the FMJ's.
Hi Guys,
The farthest I shot a Lee Enfield No. 4 Mk. 1 was 600 yards while vacationing in New Foundland (Open Hall, Bonivista Bay).
I learned some interesting things about the Lee Enfield on that day. The target was a rock about the size of a refrigerator. At first I was able to hit the rock (rested barrel) with reasonable consistency.
However after about 10 rounds (in fairly short time period) I could no longer hit the rock. The bullets were wandering all over. We later determined that it was the heat in the barrel that was affecting the accuracy. Once the rifle had cooled (for about an hour), we could again hit the rock.
It is a lesson I remember well. Now I never rush a target shoot. I just take my time and let the barrel cool between shots.
I still consider the Lee Enfield to be one of the most practical military bolt action rifles ever created.
Cheers,
Bill
The farthest I shot a Lee Enfield No. 4 Mk. 1 was 600 yards while vacationing in New Foundland (Open Hall, Bonivista Bay).
I learned some interesting things about the Lee Enfield on that day. The target was a rock about the size of a refrigerator. At first I was able to hit the rock (rested barrel) with reasonable consistency.
However after about 10 rounds (in fairly short time period) I could no longer hit the rock. The bullets were wandering all over. We later determined that it was the heat in the barrel that was affecting the accuracy. Once the rifle had cooled (for about an hour), we could again hit the rock.
It is a lesson I remember well. Now I never rush a target shoot. I just take my time and let the barrel cool between shots.
I still consider the Lee Enfield to be one of the most practical military bolt action rifles ever created.
Cheers,
Bill
- Location
- Ottawa Ontario
I have shot the .303's and the 7.62 x 54mm out to 1000 yds on the mil ranges in days gone by with149 gr FMJ's with reasonable accuracy, using open sight or ghost rings as they are called.
Both calibres for my money are excellent, I don't see a lot of difference.
Most hunting shots are a lot different though. In reality a lot of those so called long shots are not nearly as long as most people would like us to believe. Within the bush of eastern Canada 80% of kill shots are within 100 -150 yds. A good .303 in the hunting configuration is capable, in the hands of a competent marksman, with good hunting ammo; supported, to put meat on the table at 500yds+ consistantly. That, however can be said for most of the effective calibers today.
Both calibres for my money are excellent, I don't see a lot of difference.
Most hunting shots are a lot different though. In reality a lot of those so called long shots are not nearly as long as most people would like us to believe. Within the bush of eastern Canada 80% of kill shots are within 100 -150 yds. A good .303 in the hunting configuration is capable, in the hands of a competent marksman, with good hunting ammo; supported, to put meat on the table at 500yds+ consistantly. That, however can be said for most of the effective calibers today.
~Angel~ has taken her No.4(T)'s out to 500 meters with reasonable accuracy knocking down 12" steel plates for the first few shots, at least until the barrel heats up against the wood.
There's a few related range videos in The Screening Room (click here).
WWII Milsurp Sniper Rifles at 400 Meters (click here) http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=839
Milsurp Sniper Rifles at 500 Meters (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=882
This is some fun video, which a few Enfield collectors might enjoy. It shows members ~Angel~, Scott and Badger, shooting various sniper rifles from their personal collections, including a No.4(T) Turn up the volume so you can hear the sound of those plates dropping! Notice the sound delay between the time you see the plate fall, until you hear the metal PING sound return back up range to the shooter's position.
Engaging 12" Steel Plates and Figure 11 (Man) Targets at 400 and 500 Meters.
1944/45 British Enfield No.4(T) .303
1942 Russian 91/30 Mosin-Nagant 7.62x54r
1908 Swedish m/41b 6.5mm
Springfield M1A National Match 7.62x51
1909 Argentine Mauser 7.65x53
Pics extracted from video...
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
Regards,
Badger
There's a few related range videos in The Screening Room (click here).
WWII Milsurp Sniper Rifles at 400 Meters (click here) http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=839
Milsurp Sniper Rifles at 500 Meters (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=882
This is some fun video, which a few Enfield collectors might enjoy. It shows members ~Angel~, Scott and Badger, shooting various sniper rifles from their personal collections, including a No.4(T) Turn up the volume so you can hear the sound of those plates dropping! Notice the sound delay between the time you see the plate fall, until you hear the metal PING sound return back up range to the shooter's position.
Engaging 12" Steel Plates and Figure 11 (Man) Targets at 400 and 500 Meters.
1944/45 British Enfield No.4(T) .303
1942 Russian 91/30 Mosin-Nagant 7.62x54r
1908 Swedish m/41b 6.5mm
Springfield M1A National Match 7.62x51
1909 Argentine Mauser 7.65x53
Pics extracted from video...
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
Regards,
Badger
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The acceptance standard for No.4 rifles was pretty loose compared to what modern bolt actions will do.
"The necessary standard of grouping is 3 inches x 3 inches at 100 yards." From p.57 of Peter Laidler's book, An Armourer's Perspective: .303 No.4(T) Sniper Rifle and the Holland and Holland Connection, pub. by Skennerton.
That said, my father wanted to check his zero on a LB No.4(T), and the only opportunity was to fire at 900yds at St. Bruno range with the PQRA. He had a cold bore centre V-Bull with box standard issue ball ammunition. No need to tempt fate he says, and put the rifle back in the case.
"The necessary standard of grouping is 3 inches x 3 inches at 100 yards." From p.57 of Peter Laidler's book, An Armourer's Perspective: .303 No.4(T) Sniper Rifle and the Holland and Holland Connection, pub. by Skennerton.
That said, my father wanted to check his zero on a LB No.4(T), and the only opportunity was to fire at 900yds at St. Bruno range with the PQRA. He had a cold bore centre V-Bull with box standard issue ball ammunition. No need to tempt fate he says, and put the rifle back in the case.
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
We shoot all our rifles right out to 1,000meteres.
Here's my buddy shooting hid Lithgow at 1,000.
And yes, after a sight adjustment, he was hitting the targer regularly!
Cat
Here's my buddy shooting hid Lithgow at 1,000.
And yes, after a sight adjustment, he was hitting the targer regularly!
Cat
Ok then the 250 or so yards at our range should be no problem. I feel confidant that I can get at least 1" groups if I work up a decent load. I am gonna see how much a membership at the local silhouette range is, it goes up to 500 meters.
I am aware of the heating of the barrel on the No.4, learned it the hard way. I was sighting in my rifle for hunting season, and I could not figure out why the groups went from 1" to shotgun patterns. after getting some quality CGN advice, i now let the rfle cool after every 3-5 rounds. Last time I was at the range I can touch holes at 100y with factory Super-x ammo.
Thanks everyone
I am aware of the heating of the barrel on the No.4, learned it the hard way. I was sighting in my rifle for hunting season, and I could not figure out why the groups went from 1" to shotgun patterns. after getting some quality CGN advice, i now let the rfle cool after every 3-5 rounds. Last time I was at the range I can touch holes at 100y with factory Super-x ammo.
Thanks everyone
