How hot could I load a .38-55 in an old 1894?

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Wardo1974

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Hi there guys,

I am looking to buy an 1894 .38-55, or possibly 1893 Marlin.

My uncle had one of these made in the late 1800's, which was stamped as good for smokeless. It is a lovely old gun, having gotten into the hands of a good friend of mine, and it's got me thinking I want one of my own. However, I find the factory loads to be tremendously underpowered.

How hot would be safe to load up a 100-year-old Winchester in this caliber? I didn't intend to redline the rifle, but I wanted to boost the factory 255 grain bullet from about 1,100 fps to maybe 1600-1800. Some handload data I read state speeds of up to 2,000 fps.

What do you think, would my intended load be too much for an old rifle? PS, if you have one of these guns to sell, please contact me.
 
I have a modern built Pedersoli in .38-55 and shoot cast loads with Lyman data. I have been looking at a 100 year old model 94 at a local shop and would feel comfortable with the same loads with cast.
 
The rifle will tell you when it is getting fed something too hot. Work up your loads slowly and carefully. Sometimes hot doesn't mean better. It might be more accurate with milder loads. Better to place your shot accurately than either miss or wound. Factory loads are mild out of respect for older/weaker rifles.
 
Wardo1974 said:
Hi there guys,

I am looking to buy an 1894 .38-55, or possibly 1893 Marlin.

My uncle had one of these made in the late 1800's, which was stamped as good for smokeless. It is a lovely old gun, having gotten into the hands of a good friend of mine, and it's got me thinking I want one of my own. However, I find the factory loads to be tremendously underpowered.

How hot would be safe to load up a 100-year-old Winchester in this caliber? I didn't intend to redline the rifle, but I wanted to boost the factory 255 grain bullet from about 1,100 fps to maybe 1600-1800. Some handload data I read state speeds of up to 2,000 fps.

What do you think, would my intended load be too much for an old rifle? PS, if you have one of these guns to sell, please contact me.
Click to expand...

Don't mistake slow for underpowered. Hot loads aren't a good idea especially for bore and throat life. Heavy cast lead will do all that a 38-55 is capable of....
 
CIL /Dominion had two loads for the 38-55 .One at 1300fps and later 1800fps.Wouldn't go any higher than that with that gun.Get a .375 Winchester if you like more juice....JMO..Harold
 
mbogo3 said:
CIL /Dominion had two loads for the 38-55 .One at 1300fps and later 1800fps.Wouldn't go any higher than that with that gun.Get a .375 Winchester if you like more juice....JMO..Harold
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Actually, the later CIL load was 1600 with the 255 grain bullet. I still have a few of these in my larder, in the original box.
The late Winchester loads chronograph only 1240 avg in my 24" Legendary Frontiersman, but are very accurate.
My Hunting load in my 38-55 is the 255 grain Barnes Original chased by a big load of H322, clocks 1760 fps, is very accurate, and kills deer like the hammer of Thor.
I also shoot cast in this rifle, but at a bit more modest speeds, since it seems these are more accurate around 1450-1500 fps.
My bore slugged at .3770", so I am shooting cast at .379-.380" for best results.
I have 3 weights of cast, a 240, a 255, and a 280 grain.
The 280 is the only one with a gas check on it.
Reloder 7 and H4198 are good powders with these bullets in my rifle.
In an older Winchester or Marlin, I would stay under the 1650 FPS mark to be safe.
Regards, Eagleye
 
re

All those loads you mention sound pretty good to me. 1500-1800 fps. 2000 is really more than I wanted to push it. I just wanted a heavy, reliable load for deer or maybe bear, and questioned if I could hop things up a bit.

I thought I might go with cast 255's, and have a modest 1,000 fps "cowboy load" for plinking and one 1600-1800 fps for more serious stuff, but I wanted to be sure an older 1894 would handle it.

My uncle's old rifle has never had anything but mild loads though it. Shoots great, mind you.
 
Wardo1974 said:
All those loads you mention sound pretty good to me. 1500-1800 fps. 2000 is really more than I wanted to push it. I just wanted a heavy, reliable load for deer or maybe bear, and questioned if I could hop things up a bit.

I thought I might go with cast 255's, and have a modest 1,000 fps "cowboy load" for plinking and one 1600-1800 fps for more serious stuff, but I wanted to be sure an older 1894 would handle it.

My uncle's old rifle has never had anything but mild loads though it. Shoots great, mind you.
Click to expand...

Sounds entirely feasible to me!!
For your "Cowboy" load, "Trail Boss" powder is your friend.
Mild recoil, not particularly loud, and quite accurate.
Eagleye.
 
The above mentioned CIL load at 1600 fps was a deadly load!

You can easily duplicate it by reloading. My 2nd Edition Lee Manual lists a MAX load of 24 grs H4198 with a 250 gr lead bullet for 1740 fps at 26200 CUP.

Start at 20 grs of H4198 and work up, looking for signs of pressure.
 
The 38-55 data in the loading manuals is purposely mild pressure specifically for old rifles like yours. If your rifle is in good shape then you should not feel nervous about the data. 1600-1700 fps is very do-able without beating the rifle to death. Lyman #49 has several good recipes.
 
My Cowboy Load is 10.5 grains of Unique pushing a 240 grain LRNFP bullet, it gives me 1338 fps. For sometime with a bit more of a punch I also like 39.0 grains of IMR4895 also pushing a 240 grain LRNFP bullet, that load gives me 1404 fps. I've run these loads through 6 different Winchester M94 Rifles and saddle ring Carbine manufactured prior to 1920, with no problems over the last 10 years.
 
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Garand said:
My Cowboy Load is 10.5 grains of Unique pushing a 240 grain LRNFP bullet, it gives me 1338 fps. For sometime with a bit more of a punch I also like ### mistake removed JYC ### also pushing a 240 grain LRNFP bullet, that load gives me 1404 fps. I've run these loads through 6 different Winchester M94 Rifles and saddle ring Carbine manufactured prior to 1920, with no problems over the last 10 years.
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39grs. of unique:eek: I wouldn't want to be next to you even if you could fit it all in;)
 
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Garand said:
My Cowboy Load is 10.5 grains of Unique pushing a 240 grain LRNFP bullet, it gives me 1338 fps. For sometime with a bit more of a punch I also like ### mistake removed JYC ###also pushing a 240 grain LRNFP bullet, that load gives me 1404 fps. I've run these loads through 6 different Winchester M94 Rifles and saddle ring Carbine manufactured prior to 1920, with no problems over the last 10 years.
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Better edit that before someone tries to use it!!
Eagleye.
 
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Ken Waters fav load for the 38-55 is 35gns of 3031 with 255gn bullets for almost 1800fps. I have been useing that load in all my 38-55s only with 220gn bullets for yrs with excellent results :)

Ken Waters knew what he was doing ;)
 
senior said:
Ken Waters fav load for the 38-55 is 35gns of 3031 with 255gn bullets for almost 1800fps. I have been useing that load in all my 38-55s only with 220gn bullets for yrs with excellent results :)

Ken Waters knew what he was doing ;)
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Senior, I have used that load with success, as well.
Are you using the 220 Grain jacketed bullet designed for the 375 Winchester?
If so, how does it shoot?
My 1980's built Legendary Frontiersman keyholes that bullet badly.
The bore in my rifle is perfect. <400 rounds fired, the majority cast.
But...my groove diameter is a bit big for that 220, which is a true .375"
slug, rather than the oversize Barnes 255. [.377"]
Cheers, Eagleye.
 
re

Thanks for all these responses guys. Just wondering, were any of these hotter loads used in a "non smokeless" 38-55? I am finding it difficult finding a nice old 1894 that has the nickel steel. It would be a shame to get one an batter it into smithereens with loads too hot for it.

I'm getting excited reading all these suggestions, it's nice to know this old chambering isn't forgotten at all.
 
Eagleye said:
Senior, I have used that load with success, as well.
Are you using the 220 Grain jacketed bullet designed for the 375 Winchester?
If so, how does it shoot?
My 1980's built Legendary Frontiersman keyholes that bullet badly.
The bore in my rifle is perfect. <400 rounds fired, the majority cast.
But...my groove diameter is a bit big for that 220, which is a true .375"
slug, rather than the oversize Barnes 255. [.377"]
Cheers, Eagleye.
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Eagle: I use Horn .375 cal 220s in my Sav 1899, Savs all seem to have tighter barrels, my current one slugs right at .375. For my Winnys which always seem to have .378-9 bores :cool: I have a friend that made up rig out of a dies barrel that you drop in the .375 bullet, run the ram on a fairly strong press up & it compresses the bullets to fill the inside of the die body & ends up about .379. It's kinda "rednickish" but works extremely well. Most important my Winnys like them, no more keyholeing, in fact they are surprisingly accurate!

I'm surprised to hear the new 94s in 38-55 are still oversize in bore :cool:
 
Wardo1974 said:
Thanks for all these responses guys. Just wondering, were any of these hotter loads used in a "non smokeless" 38-55? I am finding it difficult finding a nice old 1894 that has the nickel steel. It would be a shame to get one an batter it into smithereens with loads too hot for it.

I'm getting excited reading all these suggestions, it's nice to know this old chambering isn't forgotten at all.
Click to expand...

I have shot lots of those loads out of "non-smokeless" 38-55s.
It's not the barrels that lack the strength, it's generally the flexable actions, which of course are the same from pre "smokeless" to post "smokless".
At 1700fps or so these are still not high pressure rounds.
 
re

Senior, I didn't know that. So the "nickel steel" proofing applies ONLY to the barrels? Receiver strength down the line is the same? I was under the impression the steel overall is stronger in the later guns.

My intention is to use cast lead only regardless, so does this mean I'm safe to load up the shells in a "non smokeless" type of barrel?
 
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