I'm looking at loading .44 Magnum using 265gr JPF bullet in Magnum cases. I have some IMR 800X that is listed as having a 10.7gr starting load for .44 Magnum. If I want more of a reduced load in a Magnum case like a .44 Special, how low can I safely go, 3/4 - 2/3 - 1/2 of that 10.7gr?
How low a charge in a Magnum case?
- Thread starter 41 Colt
- Start date
rommelrommel
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
IMR lists 800X right down to 5.9 grains (max) with a 200grn bullet doing 813fps in the 44 mag. Seems like 800X can do reduced loads. With a 265gr bullet tho you might want to start experimenting around 7.0 grn, just to get decent velocity.
This has come up so many, many times; much reduced loads. I haven't used 800x, but it is a fast powder and should react very similar to Bullseye or W231.
With either of those two powders, and with many other fast powders, just go as low as you want.
The caution always given is, just be sure the bullet gets out the barrel and does not lodge in the barrel.
Just think about it. If 5.9 grains of a fast powder is listed as a starting load, what do you think could go wrong if you used half that amount? Do think it might blow up your magnum? Come on!
With either of those two powders, and with many other fast powders, just go as low as you want.
The caution always given is, just be sure the bullet gets out the barrel and does not lodge in the barrel.
Just think about it. If 5.9 grains of a fast powder is listed as a starting load, what do you think could go wrong if you used half that amount? Do think it might blow up your magnum? Come on!
H4831: The plugged bore scenario is the catch. In rapid fire I have seen two damaged revolvers when the shooter didn't realize he'd left a bullet in the bore. Whether there was a reduced charge in one or no charge at all really isn't known. The shooters thought they felt no difference when the first shot was fired. I haven't used 800X either and I don't run to check the books when someone posts a query like this. If the info is in the books they should have found it themselves. If not there the rep. techs are available.
I take it the issue of the bullet getting lodged in the barrel increases with a longer barrel? My .44 has an 8 3/8" barrel.
My manual lists a few other powders used for both .44Spl & .44Mag and the special loads are just above half that used for the Magnum. I'll experiment a little staying above half.
My manual lists a few other powders used for both .44Spl & .44Mag and the special loads are just above half that used for the Magnum. I'll experiment a little staying above half.
Stocker, I didn't use the words, common sense, but it was what I meant when I said, just think.
If anyone with common sense was building down a load, to see how low was practical, they would not be shooting it multiple shots, as you stated. The sticking the barrel hazard has been well talked about.
A person using common sense would load a very light load and fire it. If it seemed about right, they would continue testing. Or, if it seemed to go off very weak, they would increase the powder charge.
If the bullet penetrated a reasonable amount, showing it was getting there at a fair speed, there would be little danger of one suddenly not getting out of the barrel.
I have had a couple stick in the barrel of a rifle. In both cases there was no sound to be heard when the trigger was pulled. Actually, I even heard the hammer fall on a lever gun.
In each occurance I am sure there was no powder in the case and just the primer stuck the bullet, barely in the barrel.
To each his own, but I would feel very stupid in calling up a powder technician and asking him if it would be OK if I used less of their powder in my cartridge!
If anyone with common sense was building down a load, to see how low was practical, they would not be shooting it multiple shots, as you stated. The sticking the barrel hazard has been well talked about.
A person using common sense would load a very light load and fire it. If it seemed about right, they would continue testing. Or, if it seemed to go off very weak, they would increase the powder charge.
If the bullet penetrated a reasonable amount, showing it was getting there at a fair speed, there would be little danger of one suddenly not getting out of the barrel.
I have had a couple stick in the barrel of a rifle. In both cases there was no sound to be heard when the trigger was pulled. Actually, I even heard the hammer fall on a lever gun.
In each occurance I am sure there was no powder in the case and just the primer stuck the bullet, barely in the barrel.
To each his own, but I would feel very stupid in calling up a powder technician and asking him if it would be OK if I used less of their powder in my cartridge!
blacksmithden
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I think he's mainly worried about ignition/non-ignition. I've really taken a liking to Unique powder. Some people say it's dirty, but I haven't really had any fouling problems. It's always gone off for me, no matter how much free space I've had in the case.
Listen to H4831. Common sense always applies. If your 44 mag is taking as long to hit the target as a pellet gun, you might want to up the charge a bit. I once filled some 44 mag cases with IMR7828 powder and cast 240 grain round nose bullets......just to see what would hapen. Its a very slow burning powder that's usually used in magnum rifles, not 5.5" 44 mag handguns. I got a repeated bullet speed of 495 fps. Yea, cool...I did it. No practical application and definately not accurate, but I did it. There are limits on how low you can go and have something useful on your hands. If I didn't hear the bullet hit the chip board at backstop, I had to check the bore.
Listen to H4831. Common sense always applies. If your 44 mag is taking as long to hit the target as a pellet gun, you might want to up the charge a bit. I once filled some 44 mag cases with IMR7828 powder and cast 240 grain round nose bullets......just to see what would hapen. Its a very slow burning powder that's usually used in magnum rifles, not 5.5" 44 mag handguns. I got a repeated bullet speed of 495 fps. Yea, cool...I did it. No practical application and definately not accurate, but I did it. There are limits on how low you can go and have something useful on your hands. If I didn't hear the bullet hit the chip board at backstop, I had to check the bore.
lowest load
go with the lowest book load if you want . but don;t screw around . when people screw around and get hurt it looks bad on all of us . I was talking to a guy at my target range and he admited he lodged a bullet in the barrel of a brand new smith & wesson 629 trying to see what the least amount of powder he could use for fun to just spit it out of the pistol . well buddy did it again and i am using the term buddy just so I don;t swear and he blew the top strap off his revolver . lucky he or someone did;nt get killed . I told someone else this same story on this form . I wish people would just read the dam reloading books and stay within those perimters and if not than well
I;ll read about you in the funny papers . buy 22 if you want a pop gun . PERIOD !!!!!!!!!!!!!
go with the lowest book load if you want . but don;t screw around . when people screw around and get hurt it looks bad on all of us . I was talking to a guy at my target range and he admited he lodged a bullet in the barrel of a brand new smith & wesson 629 trying to see what the least amount of powder he could use for fun to just spit it out of the pistol . well buddy did it again and i am using the term buddy just so I don;t swear and he blew the top strap off his revolver . lucky he or someone did;nt get killed . I told someone else this same story on this form . I wish people would just read the dam reloading books and stay within those perimters and if not than well
I;ll read about you in the funny papers . buy 22 if you want a pop gun . PERIOD !!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just developed a 44 Spl Load for my Magnum. I was testing for accuracy, using a 240 gr lead SWC and IMR7625. I tested 6.0 gr to 8.0 gr in 0.5 gr increments. 6.5 was very much the best, puting 2 cylinder loads into the black at 20 yards. Velocity was 700 fps.
When I made the log entries, I noted the best load for my 44 Spl Revolver was 6.0 gr.
800X is a flake powder. Make sure your thrower handles it well. Some don't. I use 7625 for all my mild to mid power loading because it meters well and is bulky. In 40, 44 and 45ACP it has also produced the best groups.
When I made the log entries, I noted the best load for my 44 Spl Revolver was 6.0 gr.
800X is a flake powder. Make sure your thrower handles it well. Some don't. I use 7625 for all my mild to mid power loading because it meters well and is bulky. In 40, 44 and 45ACP it has also produced the best groups.
For your reduced .44 loads, you might want to try Trail Boss powder, low charge weights yet it fills the case well and no chance of double charges. Remember that the bullet stuck in barrel scenario is much more of a concern when using jacketed bullets, I'm trying to get my head around using expensive jacketed bullets for such reduced loads anyways, but it's your dime!
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
I just developed a 44 Spl Load for my Magnum. I was testing for accuracy, using a 240 gr lead SWC and IMR7625. I tested 6.0 gr to 8.0 gr in 0.5 gr increments. 6.5 was very much the best, puting 2 cylinder loads into the black at 20 yards. Velocity was 700 fps.
When I made the log entries, I noted the best load for my 44 Spl Revolver was 6.0 gr.
800X is a flake powder. Make sure your thrower handles it well. Some don't. I use 7625 for all my mild to mid power loading because it meters well and is bulky. In 40, 44 and 45ACP it has also produced the best groups.
Looking good!! I'm still a bit of a 'stick in the mud' when it comes to light and heavy big bore handgun loads and often refer back to another 'old fart'
I once had the pleasure of meeting. Elmer Keith. In the old 1st edition Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 44 Magnum loads he developed and qoutes are basically;"I use 5grs of Bullseye for light gallery loads or 8.5grs of Unique for target and 22.0grs of 2400 for heavy, full loads with all three bullets". The bullets of his design he speaks of are the Lyman 250gr SW 429421 and the 429422 hollow base variation along with the 429421HP.
I find that both Unique and 7625 are very flexible when it comes to load intensity. I have Unique, but it does not work well in some of my throwers, including my Dillon. 44Mag is one of the calibers I load on the Dillon.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
I've never used 7625 but I have and still do frequently use Unique. But you're right, although it is a very flexible load wise, there can be issues with some charging equipment and getting consistent charge throws. Although I still use my Lyman #55 for throwing most multiple handgun charges, not long ago, as part of a gradual upgrade of equipment, I got an RCBS ChargeMaster Combo. Using the ChargeMaster there nolonger is an issue throwing accurate consistent loads.
Another down side characteristic is that it is a dirtier powder than most, but even so, it'll always be a stand by for me. In addition to use in the 357 Mag and 44 Mag another caliber that really shines using Unique with cast bullet loads in the 1000-1300 f/sec range is in the 500 S&W.
