How many Ft-lbs does a TSX need?

Cordur

Cordur

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I've been perusing the ballistics charts that Federal Premium has on their website. I've been putting these through my 270WSMs 24" barrel and having some nice groups. Friend of mine has been looking at getting a 300WM and the question I'm starting to ask is why bother with the 300? The 130gr out of the 270WSM absolutely beats a 165gr out of the 300WM and by not a small amount. But when you look at the 300WM launching a 180gr pill you see a 200fps and a 200ft-lb gain over the 130gr. However you also notice that the 300WM has drifts a few more inches and at longer ranges starts to drop a heck of a lot faster.

So my question really comes down to, how much velocity and foot "poundage" do you need for a Barnes TSX to make a complete pass through on an Elk or Moose? I know on deer sized game I haven't had the opportunity to recover any copper yet, even on a head shot that pass under one ear out the other side below the opposite ear with no apparent change in trajectory (was an anchoring shot on a heart lung shot deer that didn't want to fall down after waiting over a minute). I've heard a few times that even out of a much smaller caliber it's not unusual for a complete pass through to happen. I know the minimum ft lbs considered adequate for deer is in the 900 range. What about moose and elk? Or an angry grizzly for that matter? How much do you need to reach the heart of an upset grizz?
 
There is a huge difference in killing power bewteen a 180 pill driven at 3000 fps form a 300 win and a 130 gr at 3200 fps. I view the 270 wsm as great open country deer round that can certainly be used to hunt moose and elk. A 300 magnum is desinged for larger game, elk moose plains game. If you drive a small bullet fast enough you get a high energy count, but I don't think anyone would suggest a 220 swift is approprite for anything bigger than deer and even that is marginal, but it's well over the 1000 ft/lbs.

Kiling animals is more than just reading the energy #'s and going from there, it's much tougher to break a moose's shoulder than a deer and a larger bullet driven fast, but not quite as fast is way more effective than a small bulet driven really really fast.
 
Took this Lil Buck at 200 meters with a 130 TSX in a 260 rem leaving the muzzle at about 2700fps.
Complete pass through....I doubt at 200 meters the ft Lbs of energy would look very impressive on paper but don't tell the deer that;)

I wouldn't hesitate to use this combo on Moose or Elk...I'm sure with a good broadside shot on either the result would be about the same;)

buck260TSX.jpg
 
I think 2000 ft-lbs of on target energy for elk/moose is a good rule of thumb, but shot placement is still important. A 300 mag will without a doubt give better results on larger game, compared to a 270 WSM, when both are loaded with a premium bullet like a TSX.

IMO the 270 WSM with a 130 TSX @ 3200 fps is plenty of medicine for elk and moose out to a 1/4 mile. Looking after the fact at the ballistic tables, it hits 400y with almost 1700 ft-lbs of energy, which is plenty, but more importantly, its terminal speed is still high (2400 fps) so it will have lots of expansion.
 
A couple weeks ago, one of the boys here used his .270 WSM with a 130 TSX to shoot his six point elk at about 50 yards head on. He nailed the bull in the brisket and the bullet exited just below the tail (no tracking required) That's a hellava lot of penetration for such a small bullet. FWIW, taking out the heart of an upset bear won't stop them. Ya gotta bust bones to put 'em outta commission.
 
BC Bigbore: I like this rifle so much I'm not sure I'll go hunting big game with anything else for a long time. Congrats on finding one! Let me know how yours groups. I haven't put anything but 130TSX through it yet but only because I'm not worried about tiny groups at the range. Still they are giving me 1.5 MOA which is good enough for me since I can only shoot about 2.5-3MOA with it when I'm kneeling anyways.

I haven't shot anything through the shoulder yet. I hate wasting meat, to be honest if it was easy to do I would put every shot through the brain pan. I just get queasy when I think about an animal starving to death because I hit it in the bottom jaw. Still I would be interested if it will break a couple shoulders on something like a grizz at under 25 yards. Maybe front shoulder and then shatter the hip?

As for ammo cost, I don't think it's much to worry about when good 270wsm is about $55 with tax vs 300WM at something like $62? The barnes TSX doesn't really even get much cheaper to reload unless there is a supplier that I don't know of. But it still looks like about $1.50 a piece for just the copper. I imagine I could save about $15 a box if I bought new brass.

As for a 220 swift. If someone was making a proper 55-60gr intended for deer sized game what would be the problem? One of these barnes rounds wouldn't be too great as the bullet would likely rip through the deer faster than it could expand, but something intended for those speeds couldn't be all that bad. Same for the 22-250 or any other rifle capable of delivering 1000ft lb of energy out to 100 yards or beyond. I've shot a few 10" logs at about 50 yards with the 22-250 and a 40gr Hornady V-Max and I'd say the exiting hole was usually about 2-3" Seems like with the right pill it would more than sufficient. Anyways this is getting off topic.

I know a few people say it depends on the distance you are hunting it at. But these calibers both deliver more than enough punch it would seem at the 100 yard range. The 300WM definitely shows it's grunt at the shorter ranges. It's just that people usually talk about the 300WM as being one of the only choices for the longer shots.
 
I used the .270 (Win.) 130 grain TSX on most of my African plains game this summer and had complete pass throughs on everything except a length-wise shot through a 200 yard Blesbuck (representing about three feet of penetration).

Based on what I saw, I wouldn't hesitate to use it on any elk or moose here in Canada. (in fact, I had the 140 grain 7mm TSX passed through a decent elk (broadside) three weeks ago and it worked perfectly.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183231

If you're curious about short-range expansion, check out the jackal pictures here: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174930 They open up surprisingly fast and keep on going.

The shots in Africa ranged from about 120 yards to 340 (with complete broadside pass-throughs on both long shots -(Kudu and Hartebeest, similar in size to a smaller bull elk).

It's an awesome bullet and the .270 is all you need.
 
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