How much concurrently ??

HKMark23

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I expect to be heading to the range "in due course" with a bunch of new gear. Sighting in, breaking in the barrel, finding optimum loads using chronograph etc. all needs doing.

Given that I'll be in ABSOLUTELY NO RUSH whatsoever, How much can I do concurrently. I was thinking I could bore sight my new rifle then clean it between shots while sighting in, then continue the clean between shots process as I shoot different loads for optimum group.

To you experienced shooters, does it seem plausible to try the "break in" procedure while doing this other stuff or is this just too much F'ing around all at once.

Some shooters seem to believe in the breaking in of a new barrel. Others eschew the process as it involves "using up" the barrel. I'm hoping to combine the break in procedure with shooting that is obviously necessary with a new rig anyway. Comments?
 
I don't think breaking in a barrel is all that important unless it is a factory barrel. Most barrels shoot better slightly fouled. Ok before you start flaming me, I shoot moly bullets and don't plan on cleaning again until the groups open up. For those that want to break in the barrel, by all means do so.
What does it take 20 rounds or so, a bunch of cleaning patches and about 1/2 hour of time. The bullets only have to hit the back stop, don't worry about grouping at this point.
Sighting in can be done after the load development, it does not matter where you hit the target, as long as you are on paper.
Using a Chrony will not give you the optimum load for your rifle. Yes, it is nice to know how fast you are going, but your rifle may shoot the best either a bit faster or a bit slower then published velocities. You are looking for a load that groups the best.

Just my .02 cents.
 
Well I'm probably going to get ragged on here, because some people believe in a break in regime as a religion. I don't and havent found any evidence of it being plausable in any of my rifles, but maybe I've been lucky. I say shoot it like you stole it...I believe that a rifle factory new, or custom new is probably broken in in the first 5-10 rounds + or - a couple. After that give it a good cleaning once, Then clean after you see your groups start to open up, if shooting groups....or your accuracy start to wonder. Best cleaning advice I was ever given is to use Microlon Gun Juice. Treat barrel when new, then shoot like a mother and at the end of the day give it another patch. You wont see any lead,copper or powder in my barrel and it shoots like a mother.

As far as load developement........take your time, patients is a virtue here.

Just my humble opinion.
 
All my custom barrels shot as well as they should right from the get go.
I tried to break some in, didn't break others in, all the results were the same.
Super accuracy.
However, factory barrels sometimes are not made to the same meticulous sspecs as the hand made customs, so you may have to do some lapping, etc.
Eveery rifle is different.
Cat
 
I seem to constantly be in the minority by stating that I prefer to follow a break in procedure. If you have a custom barrel, and the maker of that barrel recommends you follow a break in procedure, what does it cost you to follow it. When you get that brand new barrel chambered and installed on your rifle , you have to clean it to get rid of the material left from the cambering work that your gunsmith had to do anyway. This idea that you can take the life out of the barrel by cleaning it properly for the first 20-50 rounds does not seem reasonable to me.

Certainly the loads can be chronographed during the break-in. Groups can be shot and measured - the only thing you are doing differently is that you are cleaning between shots for the first 5 rounds, then between groups for the remainder of the break-in.
 
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I wouldn't say you are in a minority Boomer, my experiance is it's about a 50/50 split, so who know's maybe we are both wrong and it's somewhere in between. I agree that a cleaning, break in process will not do any damage to your barrel, so no harm done either way. I do believe that excessive cleaning does more harm to accuracy than cleaning only when necessary. And one other thing, if I had to clean to get rid of material left from the chambering work my gunsmith did, I would find another gunsmith. I agree with what cat that every rifle is different and some may require a little more attention than others.

Just an opinion
 
Boomer said:
I seem to constantly be in the minority by stating that I prefer to follow a break in procedure. If you have a custom barrel, and the maker of that barrel recommends you follow a break in procedure, what does it cost you to follow it. When you get that brand new barrel chambered and installed on your rifle , you have to clean it to get rid of the material left from the cambering work that your gunsmith had to do anyway. This idea that you can take the life out of the barrel by cleaning it properly for the first 20-50 rounds does not seem reasonable to me.

Certainly the loads can be chronographed during the break-in. Groups can be shot and measured - the only thing you are doing differently is that you are cleaning between shoots for the first 5 rounds, then between groups for the remainder of the break-in.

Both the fellas that build my barrels lap them as part of their riflling procedure, and do not recomend a lengthy break in procedure as the barrels are mirror smooth .

Some do. Just go with what your barrel maker says, and peace of mind will follow!:)
 
catnthehatt said:
Both the fellas that build my barrels lap them as part of their riflling procedure, and do not recomend a lengthy break in procedure as the barrels are mirror smooth .

Some do. Just go with what your barrel maker says, and peace of mind will follow!:)

According to Krieger's web page, the purpose of the break in is not so much to smooth the barrel as it is to remove the reamer marks left from the chambering process. These file like ridges strip fine amounts of jacket material from the bullet and in the gasses behind the bullet these copper particles turn into a plasma and coat the inside of the barrel - it has nothing to do with the roughness of the rifled portion of the barrel.

As to extra wear to the barrel, I seldom use a bore brush. When the barrel is new on the rifle I use a bore brush to ensure no "junk" is left in the barrel from the chambering/fitting work. I then patch the barrel dry and begin shooting after pushing a patch wet with Kroil through it. I use Sweets to remove the copper first then Kroil after every shot for 5 shots, then 3 shot groups for 5 groups, then 5 - 5 shot groups. I consider the barrel broken in at this stage if it is cleaning up easily. I could probably reduce the number of shots for break in if I had a bore scope, but I keep putting that purchase on a back burner.

At this point the barrel has not been subjected to any excessive wear by the cleaning rod or brushes. The Sweets is never left standing for longer than 15 minutes, and I always use a bore guide. I don't heat the barrel while shooting the break in rounds. Once the barrel is broken in all subsequent cleaning is with Wipe Out.
 
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Like I said, some do, some don't.
My Smith and Mcphee barels shoot as well as my Kreiger does.
Comne to think of it, all the barrels I have are not bad, but I take extra care of them.
Even a lot of the factory barrels I have had would shoot match quality groups.

I have seen some that wouldn't , and some of these wre top dollar barels.
I remember a few that Stubblejumper in particular had that gave him absolute fits becuase they would not shootn groups that a high dollar rig should.
Cat
 
In any decently put together rifle there should NOT be any reamer marks left in the chamber, and shooting it till the cows come home will NOT alter marks in the chamber. Anyone who allows a rifle to be delivered with junk in the chamber or barrel is a hack!
Typically you see makers of button rifled barrels suggesting a break in procedure, those who build good quality cut rifled barrels normally do not.
A properly reamed bore is mirror like inside, how is shooting and cleaning going to alter this? other than negatively?
I tend to agree with LRC that much damage can be done cleaning. Boresnakes or non coated rods , both are bad news in my opinion.
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
In any decently put together rifle there should NOT be any reamer marks left in the chamber, and shooting it till the cows come home will NOT alter marks in the chamber. Typically you see makers of button rifled barrels suggesting a break in procedure, those who build good quality cut rifled barrels normally do not.
A properly reamed bore is mirror like inside, how is shooting and cleaning going to alter this? other than negatively?
QUOTE]


From Krieger's web page:


BREAK-IN

With any premium barrel that has been finish lapped -- such as your Krieger Barrel --, the lay or direction of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, so fouling is minimal. This is true of any properly finish-lapped barrel regardless of how it is rifled. If it is not finish-lapped, there will be reamer marks left in the bore that are directly across the direction of the bullet travel. This occurs even in a button-rifled barrel as the button cannot completely iron out these reamer marks.

Because the lay of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, very little is done to the bore during break-in, but the throat is another story. When your barrel is chambered, by necessity there are reamer marks left in the throat that are across the lands, i.e. across the direction of the bullet travel. In a new barrel they are very distinct; much like the teeth on a very fine file. When the bullet is forced into the throat, copper dust is released into the gas which at this temperature and pressure is actually a plasma. The copper dust is vaporized in this gas and is carried down the barrel. As the gas expands and cools, the copper comes out of suspension and is deposited in the bore. This makes it appear as if the source of the fouling is the bore when it is actually for the most part the new throat. If this copper is allowed to stay in the bore, and subsequent bullets and deposits are fired over it; copper which adheres well to itself, will build up quickly and may be difficult to remove later. So when we break in a barrel, our goal is to get the throat polished without allowing copper to build up in the bore. This is the reasoning for the "fire-one-shot-and-clean" procedure.

Barrels will vary slightly in how many rounds they take to break in because of things like slightly different machinability of the steel, or steel chemistry, or the condition of the chambering reamer, etc. . . For example a chrome moly barrel may take longer to break in than stainless steel because it is more abrasion resistant even though it is the same hardness. Also chrome moly has a little more of an affinity for copper than stainless steel so it will usually show a little more "color" if you are using a chemical cleaner. (Chrome moly and stainless steel are different materials with some things in common and others different.) Rim Fire barrels can take an extremely long time to break in -- sometimes requiring several hundred rounds or more. But cleaning can be lengthened to every 25-50 rounds. The break-in procedure and the clearing procedure are really the same except for the frequency. Remember the goal is to get or keep the barrel clean while polishing out the throat.

Finally, the best way to break-in the barrel is to observe when the barrel is broken in; i.e. when the fouling is reduced. This is better than some set number of cycles of "shoot and clean" as many owners report practically no fouling after the first few shots, and more break-in would be pointless. Conversely, if more is required, a set number would not address that either. Besides, cleaning is not a completely benign procedure so it should be done carefully and no more than necessary.
 
There are more than a few top notch barrel companies that will dispute this system, anmd there barrels win as many matches as Kreiger barrels do.

This is one area where the experts will never agree , it is bashed to death about once a season on Benchrest central, the 24hr. campfire, the DCRA sites, and anywhere else that gunnutz gather!
Let's just let this horse rest in peace!!:cool:
Cat
 
Boomer I am very aware of Kriegers stance, despite dealing and using many of their barrels. I do not subscibe to it entirely. I do agree with the last staement they make, that being said I finish my custom rifle barrels with "Gun Juice" so have rather different cleaning practices than most.
As Cat has pointed out this debate has raged for years amongst the various makers. Everyone has their own experiences of what works.
 
I'm going to try and talk you guys into trying the Microlon gun juice, it may change the way you all look at cleaning and break in. I was sceptical about it at first, just figured it was another gimic juice but gotta say this stuff works and works great. Try some on an older rifle if you are sceptical and dont want to risk it on a new rig I am betting your view on cleaning and break in will change as well as improvements in other areas that will suprise you. Give it a try and let me know what ya think.;)
 
It is a superlube, totally different from moly, Gun Juice achieves similar but better results.
You treat the barrel, by a running a series of wet patches with the Juice on the patch run down the bore for several times, then you fire a shot and wet patch a few times,and shoot again, after about 8 or 9 times of running a wet patch through the bore and shooting, the bore is fully treated. I have several rifles that have well over 1000 rounds through them with no copper fouling being present. Needless to say results will vary with how smooth or rough the bore is.
The added bonus with Gun Juice is that you get more velocity with the same load, unlike moly, and you get really good rust protection and it works with all bullets, not just moly coated.
I can not tell you what the actual lubricant is, as Microlon, the maker will not divulge this info, but I have used it for several years now and am so impressed with the product I am now the distibutor, most of my custom built rifles come with a bottle for the client to use from day1 of a new barrel.
The only real prerequisite is that if using it on an experienced rifle bore, the bore must be 100% copper free, or the Juice will coat over it, keeping it there forever.
The maker claims it is permanent unless you sandblast it or heat it over 1000 degrees, neither of which is recommended for good barrel life.
I use 1 wet patch after a days shooting just to remove any powder fouling from shooting, I also believe this will keep the barrier of Juice intact, being a skeptic and not believeing anything is permanent, maybe with the exceptions of death and taxes
PM me if you would like more info
 
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