How Responsive are The Clicks on Your Scope?

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Danny Boy

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From the list of scopes I have mounted on my hunting rifles, Bushnell Elites (3-9x & 4-12X) account for the majority. I also have Leupold VXIII (4.5-14X LR & 6.5-20X LR SF) and Tasco Varmint 6-24X.

Given that they are all ¼ MOA clicks, the question is how responsive are the clicks on your scopes.

Elites – Each click will eventually result in moving the cross hair. However my Elites don’t response to the clicks immediately. Ie. The POI will jump too far or not move at all during the first shot. It usually takes 1-2 shots before the cross hair settles down to the required position. While this works for sighting in the scope I could never use the adjustments during hunting.

VXIII – The VXIII are much better. The click responded much faster than the Elites. However, in limited situations, they still need one shot for the cross hair to settle down. The click is very accurate though.

Tasco Varmint – The clicks are very responsive although not 101% perfect. Each click yields ¼” at 100 yards. I have very little doubt in pulling the trigger during hunting knowing the POI shifts according to the clicks. It is obvious that Tasco is not the brightest and clearest scope in my inventory. It is good enough as my go-to scope for load development.

What is your experience?

Danny
 
I have the tasco super sniper and the after I did some manual adjusting to the turret tightness the thing is amazing, the clicks are really clear and audible and perfectly responsive
 
Elite 3200 10X - bang on.

Elite 4000/4200 2.5X10, 6x24 bang on as well. Starting to test the 4X16 - 50

Nikon Buckmaster 4X14 SF - bang on

Tasco Super Sniper - bang on.

Leupold 12X M8 - very low use time but so far, seems responsive and accurate.

I use my scopes for LR shooting which means I range, dial up to a drop table (usually start with a 100yd zero), aim and shoot. The target size is MOA, or smaller. Unless the wind is not doped properly, a hit results.

Is the POI 1/4MOA off from the last time I dialed on that rock? Couldn't tell you and doesn't apply to my application. It certainly must be consistent and repeatable enough or else the error when dialing out to a mile would be horrendous.

I test my scopes by making up a drop chart for 4 distances from 400 to 800yds. Doesn't really matter what they are. Usually convenient small rocks.

I range any rock, dial up, shoot, hit. Run the turrent(s) through their entire range of movement a few times, return to the 'dial up', aim-shoot-hit.

Change rock and repeat.

Once I have determined that the scope returns to one POI, I alternate to each target at random.

Shoot and hit one rock, move turrents all over the place several times, return to 'dial up' of another target, shoot - hit. I find this to be very tough for many scopes to duplicate but must if it is to be trusted in the field.

I use the same rangefinder (must give reliable and repeatable readings), drop chart generated for one load/bullet/powder, one scope. That way the system is tuned to work together and ensures first shot hits at extended distances.

This requires a bit of work and lots of rds fired but it puts a big smile on my face when I can range a target a long ways off, dial up, fire and hit on that first so important shot.

If I change any part of the system, I must recalibrate and ensure results are repeatable and reliable.

Jerry
 
mysticplayer said:
...... ensure results are repeatable and reliable.
Click to expand...

Jerry:

You hit the nail on the head. The dials must be repeatable and reliable to be trusted for use in the field. Unfortunately none of my Bushnell turrets perform the way they should.

Danny
 
Danny, maybe you need to 'break them in'. Move them through their entire range many times. So far, I have had a bunch of the Elites and they have all worked really well. Even older Banners worked great.

If still having problems, send back for warranty work. Scopes can break.

Also, don't expect to see 1/8MOA changes if your rifle isn't up to that level of accuracy. If the rifle will only group in 1 or 1.5MOA, each click may or may not move the POI due to the inaccuracy of the rifle. The scope moves but the dispersion in the rifle stops you from seeing the change.

So let's say you want to move the POI 1/2" and your rifle is a MOA shooter, you take a 3 shot group to find the AVERAGE POI, move the scope, shoot again a 3 shot group and find the new AVERAGE POI. You can't go by the next shot after adjusting the scope because the error in the rifle is LARGER then the change in POI you want.

Throw in wind and changing conditions which most do not dope and your scope seems to not move as desired.

If this is an Elite 4200series scope, it has moved but the error in your rifle/shooting is larger then the POI shift you are looking for. Eventually, you see it shift simply because you now have enough rds fired at the new scope setting to see an average group in a new location.

Too many shooters chase their scopes when it is really their rifle's accuracy (or lack thereof) that is at fault.

If the rifle is up to shooting very small groups, then the shooter must also be up to the task.

Sorry to say but there are many more 1/4MOA rifles then there are 1/4MOA shooters.

Jerry
 
My fixed 10X Elite 3200 seems to be 100% relaible, as is the 2.5-10 Model 4200.

I have several 3-9X40 Elite 3200s, and they have a bit of lag in them. To remedy this I usually just give the turret housing a few light taps after adjusting the turrets and that pretty much takes care of things.

The least reliable are the Burris Fullfield IIs. The clicks are barely discernible in comparion to the Elites. They feel "mushy", and lag a lot. Of course they eventually get settle down, but can take quite a few shots to do so. My fifty year old Weavers are much better with very definite clicks!

The finest of all, of course, are the weaver Accu-Trac scopes. They are 100% reliable and track perfectly.

Ted

My
 
My Nikon Buckmaster and Monach Gold are the best with my leupold 6.5-22 mark 4 falling in behind because the clicks are not as precise but one click does move the poi where it is supposed to.
 
mysticplayer said:
Too many shooters chase their scopes when it is really their rifle's accuracy (or lack thereof) that is at fault.

If the rifle is up to shooting very small groups, then the shooter must also be up to the task.

Sorry to say but there are many more 1/4MOA rifles then there are 1/4MOA shooters.
Click to expand...

Other than my Marlin 1895, other A-Bolts are consistent 1 MOA rifles. I don't find my Elite scopes responsive for adjustments. It usually take 1-3 shots for the cross hair to settle down. It is not something I do very often and I can live with this. For sure I have less problems of this nature with the Leupolds and Tasco.

Cheers!

Danny

Danny
 
The Elite 3200 10X has very very good turrents. Had the pleasure of buying one of the first batch released from Bushnell a few years back. Couldn't pass up given the price (way more then now).

This was the first scope I had used that repeated to the exact POI. Not same group but same hole. Initially, I thought it was a fluke but after repeating this feat several more times, was very impressed.

Optically, not the best. The Monarchs and Elites are better but certainly very useable.

Mechanically, it is equal to any scope at any price.

Was thrilled to see them being a factory option on the Barrett 50's.

Now if only Bushnell would make a 4200 version....or a variable or a 16X.

Jerry
 
They are so reliable, that I don't even think about the turrets on my IOR Valdadas, If i move one click at 25 yrads I can see it!:)
( I shoot each scope i get all the way out from 25 to 500, then halfway beck and back out again.
As soon as i get to the Outpost range where I can go long, I do from 500 to 1,000, back in and then back out , checking POI with each adjustment and shot.
I then forgwet about them, knowing they are perfect!
My 3200 10X tactical moved well, but the turrets were not as precise as the IOR's.
The Leuplods are very good, but thhe ultimate are MY TRB Unertls, and my lyman Super targetspot!
Nothing beats the precision of a good RTB scope!!:D
Cat
 
I have a tasco varmint that "freezes up" a bit when it gets cold. Other than that it works pretty good.

My Nightforce NSX - no problem anytime anywhere.

My Barska - so far so good but have only shot it 5 degrees celcius and above.

I have lots of other scopes but those are the ones relevant to this thread.
 
Some of the really good shooters I've watched all tap the turrets on their scopes with a knuckle after they adjust... I asked why and they all claim it helps with making sure the internal ratchet centers itself to avoid post-adjustment shifts in POI with vibration....:confused:
 
This is a very good post Daany Boy.

In general on my big game hunting rifles once they are sighted in the last thing I want to be doing in the field is fudging with the turrets, I make it a point to sight in for a given range and know my trajectory to any target I will range in the field and hold for the proper hold over. I will not shoot if the range is excessive for the gun at hand. My experience has been that too many scopes have a "lag" in the adjustment system, allowing the scope to settle down is not an option in the field when ranging adjusting and shooting is required. Some shooting, like varmint hunting requires that the scope tract perfectly and scopes have to be tested for this prior to being subjected to this environment. Also target shooting requires the same excellence in trackability. My experience shadow's Why Not's post in that the Weaver with the Micro Trac system is veery accurate and I used a 6x Weaver to shoot Hunter Class event with my 308 without complaints, I think the new Target Weavers are still using this system, highly reccomended. The Burris as was previously stated is very "mushy", they do settle down but are not suitable for the above mentioned type of shooting. The rifles I own that can show a 1/4" shift are few and the scopes that can show these minute changes in my arsenal are a 6.5x20 Leupold on a 6BR, a 6x Swarovski ZFM, Schmidt and Bender 1.5-6, Zeiss Diavari 3-9, Weaver 20x T-Series and a Lyman Super Targetspot 20x. Alot of the scopes will hold zero but my experience is that alot of them require settling down after the turrets are touched. Another factor affecting accuracy is the scopes reticle, they are getting complicated and most of them are in the second focal plane which causes a shift in point of impact when you zoom the power up and down, what a mess for range, set and shoot seenarios, IMO.
bigbull
 
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Many shooters use a rsangefinder and turrets every time they kill an animal, some out to extreme distances.
I prefer to use the has marks on my scopes for stuff like that however.

Many of my rifles are good for long distance as far as accuracy and energy , and thee scopes are up to it, but I prefer to keep my shots to a distance that I am capable and 100% sure that the animal is going to be killed.
However, on a target course, I use my turrets, and this is a Precision forum, not a hunting forum, son I guess I'm getting a little off topic!:D
Cat
 
bigbull said:
..... Alot of the scopes will hold zero but my experience is that alot of them require settling down after the turrets are touched. Another factor affecting accuracy is the scopes reticle, they are getting complicated and most of them are in the second focal plane which causes a shift in point of impact when you zoom the power up and down, what a mess for range, set and shoot seenarios, IMO.
bigbull
Click to expand...

I am glad that I am not the only one experiencing this.

When I change my load, the POI usually shifts and that is when I adjust my dials to set the POI back to 2.5" high at 100 yards. It is not something I do every other day and it is never an issue at the range.

During the last moose season, I was given a stand with shoots up to 525 yards (ranged) and I wondered if I should adjust my dials to account for bullet drop or should I just hold it over. I back away from adjusting the dials, as I wasn't sure if there would be a "lag". Given my experience, by playing with the dials in the field, I could screw up my entire moose hunt.

I could care less for ground hogs shootouts as one usually get many shots in a given day.

Danny
 
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