How to Deal with Rust

Potashminer said:
And you are now being told, for the second time in this thread, and about 10th time on this website from multiple posters, that Hoppe's #9 in the 1960's was a good product, but formulation was changed some years ago - modern Hoppe's #9 about good, today, as a cologne - about the only thing left the same is the smell, which some of us find to have a certain appeal. Is not a copper solvent any more - at least not a very good one compared to current products. Not sure how it does on powder fouling either - certainly not nearly as effective as modern bore cleaners.

One version of Windex contains ammonia - it may have some utility for removing some contaminants - get and use some household or janitorial ammonia if that is what you are after - and risk burning or etching the finish within your bore - but may as well also try 3 in 1 oil, ATF, motor oil, WD-40, etc. - all have been used - some might even remove stuff from the bore - not what any were made to do, though. If you want cheap stuff - look up "Ed's Red" and make it up - and read what it is good for - off hand, I do not recall that it is a really good copper solvent.

As mentioned previously in this thread - hot water will remove the salt residue from corrosive primers. 300 years of military experience says that hot water is what you want to use - not oils or soaps or other substances - for those corrosive salts. Other products might be needed for removing powder fouling and then perhaps a separate product for copper deposits - assuming that your ammo is not using cupro-nickle jackets, which is yet another process to remove.
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It's just what I have on hand, I'm not looking to buy everything and try it all out, and I live kinda out of the way so getting anything that isn't at Canadian Tire usually means ordering it in. I've read that the formula was changed, but I hadn't heard that it made it any less effective. From what I've read around and heard it's pretty much a personal preference/whatever works for you sort of arrangement. I don't have my own opinion as I have no context. I don't really know what other options are out there, other than Ballistol, which I've been told is good, but not as aggressive/powerful. Do you have a recommendation? I've got a bottle of elite hoppes bore cleaner here, it was a gift, I would assume it's better.

I believe that the windex I'm using has ammonia, as it stinks of it. In fact all windex I've ever used has stunk of ammonia, so I've never seen this other version.

I've been firing Norinco through her so far, but I've picked up some Barnaul since than and it's going to be it's food from now on. I'll have a look around for proper copper removal chemicals and methods, there's a lot of opinions to sift through when it comes to cleaning.

EDIT: So I just had a look around. Hoppes used to remove copper somewhat before the formula change, so I'm reading. It no longer does that. I'll definitely have to pick something up for that. Everyone and their mother just says hot water for salts, and that's what I did, and if it was good enough 200 years ago, I'm certain it's good enough now.
 
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Last time I cleaned my no.4 with Hoppes9 it had some copper fouling come out on the first couple patches.

Ballistol is the only thing I use to clean with when shooting corrosive ammo, it emulsifies in water and will dissolve salts and remove powder fouling all in one. Anything I take apart or remove from the receiver god in a tin of boiling water/ballistol and soaks. The barrel gets boiling water and a bore brush dipped in ballistol, then a patch after it’s soaked a bit.
 
Butcherbill said:
Last time I cleaned my no.4 with Hoppes9 it had some copper fouling come out on the first couple patches.

Ballistol is the only thing I use to clean with when shooting corrosive ammo, it emulsifies in water and will dissolve salts and remove powder fouling all in one. Anything I take apart or remove from the receiver god in a tin of boiling water/ballistol and soaks. The barrel gets boiling water and a bore brush dipped in ballistol, then a patch after it’s soaked a bit.
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Excellent, just like it was done in the trenches
 
I think one guy on cgn mentioned that a body part would fall off if you didn't use certain stuff.
Boiling water was the military standard for 300 years.
The reason corrosive causes rust is the left over salts absorb moisture and this is what causes the rust. Boiling water will disolve this and flush it away. Boiling hot barrels will dry in seconds. To really get the copper out the best is Wipe Out, follow the instructions on the can. You can also use Young's 303 aquaoil which is a couple of hundred years old at least. For a rust inhibiter tests have found that the best is Eezox followed by G96. The RCMP had a study done on this. Search for it on the web.
It takes very little copper to make it green on a patch. Sweets is still sold and it's great for green but really removes next to nothing. If you have a milligram scale, .001g you can try the copper stuff by weighing a bullet before and after a few days soaking. Enough for now!
 
bearhunter said:
Excellent, just like it was done in the trenches
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"In the trenches' they carried their 'own' cleaning fluid and a hose to apply it with :eek: - there's the ammonia and prob where that 'tale' came from :rolleyes:
As for the Copper solvent, OP, you said CanTire. They should have some Cu solvent there. As another poster said, ? a .323 ? brush will work. I just bought the .338 cause that's all the local BP had on hand. I also use Boretech C-4 Carbon solvent and get down to grey or brown patches b4 I stop with that. As in my pic earlier, my bore is 'shiney'. After all that, I put a few drops of Mobil-1 synth motor oil on a patch to lube the bore. The action (innards) needs to be cleaned every 'few hundred' rounds then I lube with Synthetic Grease (MotorMaster @ CT) just on the 'friction points". The 'innards have black-oxide and shouldn't need oil everywhere. That'll just collect more crap to clean off next time, so I don't go there. :rolleyes:
No need to go with "Non-corrosive" since you should clean frequently (like after each range trip) 'cause most of the crap is still in the ammo.
My whole cleaning regimen only takes about 1/2-hour (lots of practice) unless I'm making a borescope vid too. My Teslong scope has that option thru my laptop, along with my 'audio-commentary'. When first got the scope I was amazed at how dirty my "Already Cleaned" barrels were :eek: - after amazed came 'depressed' that I had to re-clean all my rifles. :mad:
 
Buck1950 said:
"In the trenches' they carried their 'own' cleaning fluid and a hose to apply it with :eek: - there's the ammonia and prob where that 'tale' came from :rolleyes:
As for the Copper solvent, OP, you said CanTire. They should have some Cu solvent there. As another poster said, ? a .323 ? brush will work. I just bought the .338 cause that's all the local BP had on hand. I also use Boretech C-4 Carbon solvent and get down to grey or brown patches b4 I stop with that. As in my pic earlier, my bore is 'shiney'. After all that, I put a few drops of Mobil-1 synth motor oil on a patch to lube the bore. The action (innards) needs to be cleaned every 'few hundred' rounds then I lube with Synthetic Grease (MotorMaster @ CT) just on the 'friction points". The 'innards have black-oxide and shouldn't need oil everywhere. That'll just collect more crap to clean off next time, so I don't go there. :rolleyes:
No need to go with "Non-corrosive" since you should clean frequently (like after each range trip) 'cause most of the crap is still in the ammo.
My whole cleaning regimen only takes about 1/2-hour (lots of practice) unless I'm making a borescope vid too. My Teslong scope has that option thru my laptop, along with my 'audio-commentary'. When first got the scope I was amazed at how dirty my "Already Cleaned" barrels were :eek: - after amazed came 'depressed' that I had to re-clean all my rifles. :mad:
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I will for sure echo that bolded part - I thought that I knew what "clean" and "good" looked like by eye - now that I have had the bore scope for a few years, I no longer trust, at all, what my "eye" sees - just totally a learning experience to find out that what I thought that I "knew", was very "wrong". And that creeps over into what I think when a potential seller tells me that the rifling looks "shiny" and "strong". Says to me that he does not really know either ...
 
Yep 'Miner, That's just like " ... accurate ..." - Is that MOA or MO Popcan ? "Rifling looks good" can mean anything. When I see anything like those, I just pass that rifle even tho it's one I'd maybe like. I just don't gamble on things like ' un-supported opinions' .
I've seen pics of "looking down a bore" on forums - all that shows is the 'light at the end' and 'shiney walls'. The pic of my SKS bore earlier "Looks shiney" from either end - and look at the pitting.
 
Is a curious thing - pitting in the bore - I have a New, Old Stock, Schultz and Larson Palma barrel installed onto a M1917 action - I am under the impression that is what "world class", "very good to excellent", would look like - at least back in the day when I was much younger - it has never seen a shot fired yet. On the other hand, I just finished putting together a rifle with a 1926 Remington manufacture code stamp - is literally pits from as far as my scope can see from one end to another. I have aperture sights on it. I am not good, not experienced, with aperture sights - if that 1926 rifle barrel and I can pull off some 4" groups at 100 yards, I will be very happy with that project! I will use that S&L set-up to find out what "good" might be, for me and aperture sights. Is too much evidence that I have found, that what the bore looks like in the bore scope, is not exactly representative of how I have found the thing to shoot. I like the repeatable 3/4" 3 shot groups from my 338 Win Mag - bore scope appears to say that I am dreaming to think that might be possible. So, I am still learning to interpret what I see in there. I am beginning to think muzzle condition is at least as important as bore condition, but I might be wrong on that.
 
CarloNord said:
So I have a 1950 Russian SKS, steel barrel. I left her well oiled (So well oiled that she was still dripping some Hoppes when I opened up the receiver), in a silicone gun sock, in a cabinet that has desiccant packs in it. I haven't checked on it for about 2-3 months, figuring it's fine. But last night I decided to have a look, jus in case. I could hardly see down the barrel, so much rust. So much. I spent just over 2.5 hours cleaning the bore, apply cleaner, scrub, patches, apply cleaner again, wet patches, etc. I've got it to the point where it's shiny on the inside again, but dirtier now. I think there's been some pitting, and I think the bore has been widened a bit since my brush glides through much easier now, though that could just be the brush since I think it's made of copper.

Anyways, how do I deal with this for long term? Or am I going to just be checking in on her periodically to make sure she's clean? I'm still seeing either some copper fouling I think in the barrel, I've got her apart again right now for some more cleaning.

Thanks in advance!
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Boeshield t-9 works great for long term storage. It leaves a dry wax coating that doesn't run off. Lee Valley has it.
 
Butcherbill said:
Ballistol is the only thing I use to clean with when shooting corrosive ammo, it emulsifies in water and will dissolve salts and remove powder fouling all in one.
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I just use old proven Ballistol. What was/is good for the Imperial German Army, Wehrmacht and Bundeswehr, is definitely good for my guns.
 
8 years ago, I did an experiment. Sprayed a freshly fired (100 + rds Czech corrosive) 1953 beautiful SKS from the 2009 Lever Guns batch. Liberally in and out. Remington spray gun oil. Without any rinsing with hot water. Just an exterior surface wipe down. Sprayed Firing pin and hole, liberally into the breech, and everywhere inside the receiver and magazine. and stored it muzzle down. Plan was to inspect and clean it after 3-6 months. That turned into 3 years. A buddy needed an SKS to shoot at a .30 caliber military rifle meet. Lent him this SKS. I made sure the bore was clear of any oil. Anyways, he wins the shoot and wants to buy my SKS because it was mint and all, after he cleaned it. This buddy is the pickiest shooter I know. I didn't tell him about my experiment, there was no need. The bore was perfect, so were the gas tube and piston and everything else.

Somebody said that I must have stored it in 50% humidity or lower, conditions. Perhaps. I don't have a way of checking. But I'll try it again if still had that SKS. Sold my SKSs and bought a couple of ARs. How stupid.
 
easyrider604 said:
8 years ago, I did an experiment. Sprayed a freshly fired (100 + rds Czech corrosive) 1953 beautiful SKS from the 2009 Lever Guns batch. Liberally in and out. Remington spray gun oil. Without any rinsing with hot water. Just an exterior surface wipe down. Sprayed Firing pin and hole, liberally into the breech, and everywhere inside the receiver and magazine. and stored it muzzle down. Plan was to inspect and clean it after 3-6 months. That turned into 3 years. A buddy needed an SKS to shoot at a .30 caliber military rifle meet. Lent him this SKS. I made sure the bore was clear of any oil. Anyways, he wins the shoot and wants to buy my SKS because it was mint and all, after he cleaned it. This buddy is the pickiest shooter I know. I didn't tell him about my experiment, there was no need. The bore was perfect, so were the gas tube and piston and everything else.

Somebody said that I must have stored it in 50% humidity or lower, conditions. Perhaps. I don't have a way of checking. But I'll try it again if still had that SKS. Sold my SKSs and bought a couple of ARs. How stupid.
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I've done similar experiments with 91/30 rifles and had just the opposite result.

That doesn't mean much, considering the different regions we live in.

Less than 24 hours after shooting 20 rounds of Czech surplus 7.62x54R, the bore started showing signs of rust. I used G96 spray oil for that experiment.

I wasn't willing to damage an almost pristine bore, so went through the boiling water and Ballistol process.

One thing I do find, Ballistol will leave a very difficult to remove residue in the bore if it's left for a long time, say more than a year.

I've also noticed that bores that have been used for shooting corrosive ammo will rust after "proper" cleaning if they are wiped out completely to dry and left in the safe for extended periods.

I've never been a fan of Rem-Oil, simply because it's expensive and hasn't proven to be better than much cheaper products.

I use a lot of lubricants as well as cleaning products and usually purchase them by the gallon or case.

I do have some Rem-Oil and will give it a try.

Maybe you just got lucky with that batch of ammo?????
 
Ian Robertson said:
Reference to "mil spec" kind of bothers me. Mil Spec is no means an indication of quality. It is only the lowest acceptable standard.
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This is just to true of many government contracted items.

The thing is, often their minimum standard is much higher than those of their commercial competitors highest standards.
 
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