How to ID and valuate an old rotary lever H.Holland

[RichardSukhoi]

Hi Everyone, I was asked to look at an old rotary under lever "H.Holland 98 new bond street London" rifle. To break it open you rotate the lever beneath. Bore is about .38, chamber about 60 mm (seems mild taper or straight wall.


I've looked everywhere. people say it's a "rook rifle" except those don't seem to be rotary under lever. Also the "rook rifles" have small pistol cartridges whereas this one is like 60 mm long.

Any suggestions how to ID?

 

[Ashcroft]

Well if you write to Holland And Holland with the particulars of your gun you can find out when it was built, what calibre, weight, who it was sold to and when, any service, repair or modification record and they will supply an authentication certificate (all for a fee of course). They can not and will not evaluate it. There are specialized appraisers that can do this in Canada but the best will want the gun in hand to examine and measure and they charge for this service. You can get a free estimate here on CGN from viewers looking at your pictures and written description. You usually get your money’s worth.

 

[oldstarfire]

PM sent

 

[jamesharrison]

.360 2 1/4" chamber, Jones underlever. It's NOT a rook rifle. What do the proof marks say?

 

[trevj]

.360 2 1/4" chamber, Jones underlever. It's NOT a rook rifle. What do the proof marks say?

Yeah. I'd go with this.

The category you are likely looking for (and others WILL correct if I am wrong, LOL!) is more like to be a "Stalking Rifle", essentially, a Gentleman Sportsman's deer gun!

Should be a bunch of proof marks on the underside of the barrel, once you remove the fore-end and remove the barrel from the action. Those will tell you the where and when of it's Proofing, if it went through the process in Britain.

 

[mooncoon]

360 x 2 1/4 is unlikely to be a deer rifle; more likely for rabbits and foxes etc. I have never found the British proof marks easy to determine the date with , unless they were nitro proofed with no indication of a black powder proof.

cheers mooncoon

 

[Raton57]

Obviously nobody is going to hunt rabbits with a rifle that big . It's in deer, stag power for sure.

 

[jamesharrison]

360 x 2 1/4 is unlikely to be a deer rifle; more likely for rabbits and foxes etc. I have never found the British proof marks easy to determine the date with , unless they were nitro proofed with no indication of a black powder proof. cheers mooncoon

Perhaps with the early load of 155 grain lead bullet; certainly not so with the late 300 grain bullets traveling at 1,650 fps. Unless you consider the .45-70 loaded with 300 grain bullets [which have much poorer sectional density than a 300 grain ~0.375" bullet], to be a rabbit or fox load!

 

[jamesharrison]

Even without seeing the proof marks, we can deduce a certain number of things about this rifle.

Given the singular name [H. Holland] vice Holland & Holland, it was manufactured pre-1876. As a result, it was made in Brum [Birmingham] as Holland & Holland did not have their own factory until 1893. Further, all Holland & Holland rifles manufactured post-1883 that I have examined were wont to proclaim "Winner of All The Field Trials" This rifle does not have that prominently engraved on the upper barrel flat.

We know Jones patented his under-lever grip design in 1859, so we can safely presume this rifle was made subsequent to that date. Given the patent was allowed to lapse in 1862, which allowed anyone to freely use the design without paying royalties, we can probably also safely presume it was made after that date.

So, even without seeing the proof marks, we can likely date it to between 1862 & 1876 UNLESS, it carries Belgian proof marks, in which case it is just another Belgian copy meant to deceive a buyer.

And, even with the lighter weight bullets, the maker stated it was quite adequate for deer, antelope, &c.



Nevertheless, it would be interesting to see the barrel underside & its water table markings.

 

[Ashcroft]

Yes the proof marks will provide a lot of information if you can read them. However there seems to be only one picture posted although that one looks promising. Seems to me, depending on the actual cartridge the gun was made for it could be the rough equivalent of the .38/55, certainly adequate for deer/antelope within the limitation of the sights.