How to improve mechanical scale precision?

xingyc

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I started with a cheap digital scale. Got tired of the drifting from digital scale, so I switch to a RCBS 505 mechanical scale.
Later I find out the mechanical scale also drifts, due to the magnet. Is there a way to stop the drifting? Or do I have to invest in a proper digital scale?
 
Drifting is a minor problem

I found in the past if the furnace blower came on the scale would change..

Set it up zero it ... check it every so often .... if you do not move it or have no air movement it should not change .... and if it does change it might be only 0.1 or 0.2 of a grain
 
I started with a cheap digital scale. Got tired of the drifting from digital scale, so I switch to a RCBS 505 mechanical scale.
Later I find out the mechanical scale also drifts, due to the magnet. Is there a way to stop the drifting? Or do I have to invest in a proper digital scale?

those mechanical scales should not drift. the magnet does not pull the scale. it acts on the coppers piece via eddy currents and do NOT affect the result.
 
Proper electronic lab balances have doors on them to limit drafts affecting the readings. Could make a little doghouse for similar effect
 
What are you calling "drifting?"

Electronic digital scales mostly operate with load cells. There are several different variations of cells. The most common type is "U" shaped and measures the birefrigence between the gap at any given time.

It isn't unusual for any scale, beam balance or electronic to drift or wander a tenth of a grain, just from your personal moving around. I have a Dilon and it's very accurate and repeatable. I also have one of those small, cheap Hornady digital scales.

The Dilon is used on my bench. I'm a bit anal about accuracy and the Dilon fits that bill for me. The Hornady is used for load development at the range.

Depending on what you're shooting, that tenth of a grain won't make a hair of difference to accuracy, function or velocity, unless you're loading very small cartridges with fast powder.


The fact that you're scale is measuring the tiny air movements or maybe vibration, only goes to show how sensitive it really is. Sounds like a good scale.

When I was still working in the manufacturing of glass, we used extremely sensitive beam balances, that were sealed in special cabinets, away from drafts, vibration dampened and thermally protected. We used specific weight, non detergent mineral oil to dampen swing and vibration effect as well.

When we switched over to load cells, we tossed some extremely expensive mechanical scales. The new load cells also proved to be temperature sensitive, but that was taken care of with a computer. They were only minimally effected by vibration. Air movement didn't bother them.

In very small scales, all of the above issues are even more critical. Really want to drive yourself insane by counting the split hairs on a gnats butt??? Take a few loads of powder around 20 degrees C and set them aside, so that you can measure them later at 5C and 30C. There will be a measurable difference.

My indoor scale has a cabinet between it and the door, to keep drafts down to a minimum. I use a RCBS 505 to reference calibration if I'm concerned.

As for your question, you're looking for some sort of dampening to stop the tiny swings. It can be achieved but at what cost and for what realistic reason.

Just remember, the components you're using, whether you personally measure them or buy and assemble them, aren't precise either and vary from one piece to the next, even in the same lot. The only thing you have some control over is the weight of the powder, you measure. The speed of the powder will vary from lot to lot.

If you're trying to get the scale to settle down faster??? Just remember, whatever dampening you use, it creates resistance and that will create more variables.
 
Not much to do to the scale itself. Try to eliminate EM interference. Distance the scale as much as possible from outlets, motors, flourescent lights etc. And any air currents.
 
Here are a few little things that I do.

My 505 will stop at a slightly different spot when the pan is released from the top vs the bottom of its travel so I make sure to always release it from the same position.

I use a piece of solder cut to weigh the same as my most popular loads as a way of zeroing my scale for consistency.

The ceiling mounted furnace in my shop blows air into the diagonally opposite corner of the room, but still cannot be on when I'm measuring powder due to air movement.
 
Make sure the knife edge and bearing blocks are clean.

The tiniest of dust in the bearing blocks can affect smooth operation.
Best to cover it up (or box) when not in use.
 
I started with a cheap digital scale. Got tired of the drifting from digital scale, so I switch to a RCBS 505 mechanical scale.
Later I find out the mechanical scale also drifts, due to the magnet. Is there a way to stop the drifting? Or do I have to invest in a proper digital scale?

The magnets are to dampen the movement of the beam and should not result in scale drift. With the 5-10 and 10-10 you can cause drifting by not securing the tenth rotor weight as it will rotate after repeated loads.
You can also enhance your accuracy by installing a needle that spans the gap between the scale and beam pointer. This helps with parallax errors reading the scale. A piece of scotch tape and a straight pin is about all thats required.
Mounting the beam scale on a solid shelf at eye level also helps to improve results.
Avoid bench mounts if you are doing other activities on the bench that will introduce vibrations when weighing.
Avoid drafts from windows and furnace vents that can affect the scale.
Cover your scale when not in use to avoid dust getting into the beam knife edge and aget bearing .
 
I lift my 5-0-5 and 5-10 scales beams off and hit them with a computer air duster every time before I use it. Also clean them once very 6 months. No problems. I had a cat hair on one of the knife edges once, I could tell as one kernel of H4350 was not registering on the scale, it does normally. I also cover the heat register when I reload as it will move the beam. Otherwise I love the beam scales. I have a web cam pointed at the pointer, and showing on my laptop, makes viewing the pointer easy.
I have RCBS checkweights, and my 5-0-5 was a bit off from the factory, so I adjusted the internal pan weight, then adjusted it again when I switched to a Lyman pan funnel. Also added a small piece of foam to the area, that when you lift the pan, the beam does not crash metal on metal. I would recommend that mod.
 
A mechanical balance scale should not stray if the fulcrum/knife edge is kept clean and drafts are not present. An electronic scale however will as the volts and ohms and amperes swim around inside it.
A balance is good at sea level or on Everest where an electronic scale needs everyday calibration and would be affected by atmospheric pressure I think.

" I do qualify the above with being what I remember from high school physics and that was a long time ago"
 
Huh, some real interesting reading here, was not expecting this.

You can also enhance your accuracy by installing a needle that spans the gap between the scale and beam pointer. This helps with parallax errors reading the scale. A piece of scotch tape and a straight pin is about all thats required.

Mind explaining that more?

I have a web cam pointed at the pointer, and showing on my laptop, makes viewing the pointer easy.

Good idea, may have to steal this!
 
Still have to finish this project.

I have a small photoset across the back portion of the scale. Charge with Lee dippers, hit a button and let the automated trickler finish the job. Photosensor sense where the scale is at and turns trickler off.
 
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