How to prove to an officer a gun is non-restricted if/when the registry is scrapped

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Jds

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Hey everyone,

I've been lurking around the forums a lot lately as I wait for my PAL and R-PAL to get approved. While doing so I just thought of something that I can't seem to find the answer for.

I had just stumbled upon a thread discussing the coolest non-restricted black rifles, and a thought occurred... Lets say I'm out in the field hunting (or just target shooting) with a brand new non-restricted RFB, Tar21 or Kriss Super V, and an officer pulls up. How do I prove (to the most likely ill informed officer) that my brand new rifle is non-restricted once the registry is scrapped? Is there any documentation that comes along with the purchased rifle that shows that it is non-restricted?

I'm a real newbie and have yet to go through the process of purchasing/owning a firearm, and would like some guidance on this matter.

Thanks for you patients.
 
The FRT is the Firearms Reference Table. It will list all fire arms in a category stating the different categories that apply to them, mainly (Non-restricted, restricted, prohibited).

The only way to know if a firearm is stolen (when the registry is destroyed and if its non-restricted) that is if you call in and ask. You stated you are a interested party in buying said firearm and inquire if it has been stolen or not. I would assume they confirm what it is, make, model, serial, then say yes or no, end of story.

I suspect people will call to see if the firearms they wish to buy has been reported stolen or not, but then again because there is no registry I wonder how people will prove ownership of the firearm in the first place unless they have something like a bill of sale.

So if a cop pulls you over, there is no way he can tell if your gun is stolen or not, unless he know what make and model/serial that was stolen, or gets the information of your firearms and checks with the CFC. Plus he would need a legitimate reason to stop you in the first place.

Restricted on the other is self explanatory since they are all registered, you need to be law abiding to acquire them legally.
 
T_A_N_K said:
The FRT is the Firearms Reference Table. It will list all fire arms in a category stating the different categories that apply to them, mainly (Non-restricted, restricted, prohibited).

The only way to know if a firearm is stolen (when the registry is destroyed and if its non-restricted) that is if you call in and ask. You stated you are a interested party in buying said firearm and inquire if it has been stolen or not. I would assume they confirm what it is, make, model, serial, then say yes or no, end of story.

So if a cop pulls you over, there is no way he can tell if your gun is stolen or not, unless he know what make and model/serial that was stolen, or gets the information of your firearms and checks with the CFC. Plus he would need a legitimate reason to stop you in the first place.

Restricted on the other is self explanatory since they are all registered, you need to be law abiding to acquire them legally.
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Awesome!
Thanks for the reply
 
BTW

What if a firearm has been used in a crime?
I just don't want to buy something then have to go through an ordeal explaining

I guess we should keep the sellers PAL info with it
Makes sense

Or is there a better way?
 
This is just how I interpret it, I may be wrong, I am sure there are more educated people on here that know for sure.

Yes for personal records, I would record the PAL information of the Seller, date I took ownership, and date I sold it, who I sold it, ect.

This was required back when you had the FAC, but extremely easy going. All you needed to do was verify they had a FAC(now called PAL) to sell them a firearm and take note who you bought it from.
 
T_A_N_K said:
This is just how I interpret it, I may be wrong, I am sure there are more educated people on here that know for sure.

Yes for personal records, I would record the PAL information of the Seller, date I took ownership, and date I sold it, who I sold it, ect.

This was required back when you had the FAC, but extremely easy going. All you needed to do was verify they had a FAC(now called PAL) to sell them a firearm and take note who you bought it from.
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Seems reasonable
Every firearm owner I've ever met is or behaves responsible enough yet WE are classified as "Criminals"

Bah

Anyway, thanks for the info
Cheers!
 
T_A_N_K said:
This is just how I interpret it, I may be wrong, I am sure there are more educated people on here that know for sure.

Yes for personal records, I would record the PAL information of the Seller, date I took ownership, and date I sold it, who I sold it, ect.

This was required back when you had the FAC, but extremely easy going. All you needed to do was verify they had a FAC(now called PAL) to sell them a firearm and take note who you bought it from.
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None on this was a requirement with the FAC unless you were a business. All one had to do was see the FAC, check the date and you were good to go.

As to proving you own something....it is not the owner that must prove proof of ownership. If a cop asked you to prove you owned a hammer, how would you so so?

Scott
 
m39a2 said:
None on this was a requirement with the FAC unless you were a business. All one had to do was see the FAC, check the date and you were good to go.

As to proving you own something....it is not the owner that must prove proof of ownership. If a cop asked you to prove you owned a hammer, how would you so so?

Scott
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Absolutely correct... do you still have the receipts for everything you own?.... As fireams owners we have to start educating the brainwashed masses away from thinking that firearms should be treated any differently than any other piece of property... sure, they require safe handling practices and such but the same goes for many things...

The Onus is not on you or I to prove that our firearms aren't stolen....
 
The easy way would be this

LEO: This is a restricted weapon
You: no it's not please check the registry for restricted weapon
LEO Should run it and discover that it's not there
LEO: Thank you for your cooperation
You: Have a nace day Sir

And you both return to your activity!
 
Superbrad said:
Absolutely correct... do you still have the receipts for everything you own?.... As fireams owners we have to start educating the brainwashed masses away from thinking that firearms should be treated any differently than any other piece of property... sure, they require safe handling practices and such but the same goes for many things...

The Onus is not on you or I to prove that our firearms aren't stolen....
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Then who is the onus on then?
As much as I hate the registry (and I will defintely be one of the people to scream "Hallejuah!" when its gone), in the situation the TS is suggesting, it does prove to be however slightly useful to prove that we are not criminals. When its gone, how will we prove ourselves? Are we supposed to trust one another? I'm sorry- but I don't trust people that I'm supposed to know.
 
djmay71 said:
Then who is the onus on then?
As much as I hate the registry (and I will defintely be one of the people to scream "Hallejuah!" when its gone), in the situation the TS is suggesting, it does prove to be however slightly useful to prove that we are not criminals. When its gone, how will we prove ourselves? Are we supposed to trust one another? I'm sorry- but I don't trust people that I'm supposed to know.
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You are selling a pelletgun in the EE.... how do I know it isn't stolen?.. You are typing on a computer... did you steal that?... Why should we have to prove ourselves?.... We don't have to prove ourselves with anything else we buy in life.... I don't get why people think guns should be any different....

The Onus is on the law... we live in a democracy where people are innocent until proven guilty....
 
LEO : this is a restricted firearm.
YOU : no it is not. So you have 3 choices. Either you take my word for it and we each go about our day, either you look it up to find out for yourself and we each go about our day also, either you don't do your job well, arrest me, and I call my friend who's a lawyer. i'm then released without charges a little later when everyone finds out there was no basis for the arrest and that you failed to do proper police work, just in time for me to file a complaint on you to the Police Deontology Department. My record stays blank, yours doesn't. I may even file a lawsuit for unlawful arrest...

So at the end of the day, no matter what option you choose, i'm 100% sure to be satisfied with the outcome.
You on the other hand, have a 33% risk of ending up frustrated and pissed, with a stain in your job record that will follow you forever...with only yourself to blame.

So what would you like to do? If it was me, i'd go with the remaining 66%... But its really your call, isn't it.

I know, this kind of straight-up conversation almost only happens in movies, but you get the point :p
 
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Numerous threads on this topic. A generation of gunowners who don't know what it was like before the LGR.

People bought and sold firearms for many years before the LGR with no troubles.

Common sense prevails, and stop worrying so much. It'll be fine.
 
Hey Guys sorry for the long wait for a reply, it has just been a busy day at work.

BTW not sending in my application right away was down mostly to work and travel, and having my priorities in a different place.

I sent off my application this August, and have had my interview as well as both of my references interviewed. This was completed in October, and I know I wasn't on top of calling in. My application says "Your application has completed initial processing..." and has been that way for a month or two.


I do love the fact that the registry will be gone, but it is good to get a sense of how things will change (for the better) slightly.

I just wanted to know if carrying around a document that shows your rifle is non-restricted, might just aid in the process if you are asked by an officer.

I think the calling in to make sure a rifle your buying isn't stolen is just common sense.

I know I should be more on top of asking whats going on with my application, and I will make sure to do so tomorrow. You all have the right to call me out on being... "that guy".

Hopefully the scrapping of the gun registry will prevent the irrational knee jerk reaction to ban certain firearms due to the use by some criminal, or because some anti saw one and thought it looked scary.
 
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sewktbk said:
LEO : this is a restricted firearm.
YOU : no it is not. So you have 3 choices. Either you take my word for it and we each go about our day, either you look it up to find out for yourself and we each go about our day also, either you don't do your job well, arrest me, and I call my friend who's a lawyer. i'm then released without charges a little later when everyone finds out there was no basis for the arrest and that you failed to do proper police work, just in time for me to file a complaint on you to the Police Deontology Department. My record stays blank, yours doesn't. I may even file a lawsuit for unlawful arrest...

So at the end of the day, no matter what option you choose, i'm 100% sure to be satisfied with the outcome.
You on the other hand, have a 33% risk of ending up frustrated and pissed, with a stain in your job record that will follow you forever...with only yourself to blame.

So what would you like to do? If it was me, i'd go with the remaining 66%... But its really your call, isn't it.

I know, this kind of straight-up conversation almost only happens in movies, but you get the point :p
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I guess you haven't met Officer Mantler then. :slap:
 
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