how to reload for a MAS st etienne 455 webley 1874 revolver

Boltcarrier

Boltcarrier

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I have an antique status MAS french made Ste Etienne for 455 webley 1874

if you have experience with this type of gun, please help with the proper way of reloading for this gun

i have new starline brass 455 webley mk 2, and 250 grain bullet.

please let me know what would be the best powder for it

I have some triple 7 powder.. but don't know how much powder to put in.

thank you
 

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Triple 7 is a black powder substitute. Treated same as black powder. A case full. Measure how far your bullet base is inside the once seated. That’s how much powder to use. I don’t weigh the powder on scale. I measure by volume. Triple 7 doesn’t like being compressed. I have a black powder measure setup for filling my cases. Your bullets will need a lube suitable for black power such as SPG lube. It’s to keep the powder soft in the barrel, otherwise accuracy will go down hill quickly.
 
Hi, Thank you for the info. this is my first time reloading with black powder equivalent. so if I fill the powder up to the level touches the back of the bullet, that would be safe for a 1874 made MAS gun? is there a way to judge the amount of pressure taken by the gun from this set up. thanks again.
 
Boltcarrier said:
Hi, Thank you for the info. this is my first time reloading with black powder equivalent. so if I fill the powder up to the level touches the back of the bullet, that would be safe for a 1874 made MAS gun? is there a way to judge the amount of pressure taken by the gun from this set up. thanks again.
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Having loading manuals at hand, will give you safe knowledge and make loading much more interesting and worry free.
 
Boltcarrier said:
Hi, Thank you for the info. this is my first time reloading with black powder equivalent. so if I fill the powder up to the level touches the back of the bullet, that would be safe for a 1874 made MAS gun? is there a way to judge the amount of pressure taken by the gun from this set up. thanks again.
Click to expand...
Black powder or substitutes are low pressure loads. The case can be loaded with all it will hold and the loads will be safe. You can use smokeless powders with equivalent pressure rated loads. Too much smokeless can give over pressure. I use 5 grs of Unique with a 255 gr cast bullet. Black powder is easy to use and you can’t get enough in the case to create over pressure loads.
 
cosmic said:
This discussion presumes the gun is in good condition mechanically. OP - Are you in a position to make this assessment?
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I cleaned the gun thoroughly, Hopps 9 and WD40. and I fired the gun using 455 webley mk2 Starline brass and large pistol primer with wax bullets only, no powder involved. and the gun performed flawlessly.

mechanically, the cylinder is tight, bore is shiny, and each chamber is good, hammer functions with consistent spring power, the gun is in good condition with no pitting.
 
Snider shooter said:
Black powder or substitutes are low pressure loads. The case can be loaded with all it will hold and the loads will be safe. You can use smokeless powders with equivalent pressure rated loads. Too much smokeless can give over pressure. I use 5 grs of Unique with a 255 gr cast bullet. Black powder is easy to use and you can’t get enough in the case to create over pressure loads.
Click to expand...
Thank you, for the info, it's good to know that bit about black powder.
 
Snider shooter said:
Triple 7 is a black powder substitute. Treated same as black powder. A case full. Measure how far your bullet base is inside the once seated. That’s how much powder to use. I don’t weigh the powder on scale. I measure by volume. Triple 7 doesn’t like being compressed. I have a black powder measure setup for filling my cases. Your bullets will need a lube suitable for black power such as SPG lube. It’s to keep the powder soft in the barrel, otherwise accuracy will go down hill quickly.
Click to expand...
Just so you're aware, Hogdgon states to reduce your volumetric load by 15% when loading a comparable black powder load. "To duplicate a black powder load velocity using Triple Seven®, set the volumetric charge 15% lower than the black powder load being used."
https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/2023-Muzzleloader-WARNINGS-.pdf
 
One other thing to factor in, is whether or not your bullets have solid or hollow bases.

I haven't had any experience with "triple 7" but black powder does like to be compressed and abhors voids.

If your Google Fu is good, there is an article in Handloader No 144/1990, on page 32, by Gil Sengel on "practical loads for the 455 Webly Revolver"

It has smokeless powder loads for the 250 grain "flat base bullets" used RED DOT 3.7 grains/Green Dot 4.6 grains/Unique 5.2 grains for appx 630fps, using MkII cases.

MkII cases are .760 OAL.

MkI cases are .870 OAL

Charge weights are slightly different.

Ken Waters Pet Loads lists HP38 5.7 grains/ ww231 6.0grains

The bore diameter on these old revolvers vary quite a bit from median spec. That's one of the reasons for the "hollow base" bullets. The skirts expand/swage down to fill the grooves.

Some folks like to fill the hollow base with "Bondo" to eliminate the air space and assist in expanding the skirts under the BP pressures.

As mentioned above, condition of the revolver is a concern. Your pistol appears to have been refinished and shows some pitting.

Still, those pistols are quite strong for the period and very nice to shoot. Enjoy.

Black Powder loads for the 455 Webley MKII can be tricky because it's the small case.

I use 15.0 grains of FFFG over magnum primers.

I also show an old load for Pyrodex, which I don't know how close it is to 777, 20.0 grains but it was used with MkI cases.

Hope this helps a bit.
 
bearhunter said:
One other thing to factor in, is whether or not your bullets have solid or hollow bases.

I haven't had any experience with "triple 7" but black powder does like to be compressed and abhors voids.

If your Google Fu is good, there is an article in Handloader No 144/1990, on page 32, by Gil Sengel on "practical loads for the 455 Webly Revolver"

It has smokeless powder loads for the 250 grain "flat base bullets" used RED DOT 3.7 grains/Green Dot 4.6 grains/Unique 5.2 grains for appx 630fps, using MkII cases.

MkII cases are .760 OAL.

MkI cases are .870 OAL

Charge weights are slightly different.

Ken Waters Pet Loads lists HP38 5.7 grains/ ww231 6.0grains

The bore diameter on these old revolvers vary quite a bit from median spec. That's one of the reasons for the "hollow base" bullets. The skirts expand/swage down to fill the grooves.

Some folks like to fill the hollow base with "Bondo" to eliminate the air space and assist in expanding the skirts under the BP pressures.

As mentioned above, condition of the revolver is a concern. Your pistol appears to have been refinished and shows some pitting.

Still, those pistols are quite strong for the period and very nice to shoot. Enjoy.

Black Powder loads for the 455 Webley MKII can be tricky because it's the small case.

I use 15.0 grains of FFFG over magnum primers.

I also show an old load for Pyrodex, which I don't know how close it is to 777, 20.0 grains but it was used with MkI cases.

Hope this helps a bit.
Click to expand...
Thank you, for the valuable information
 
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