How to tell if a rifle is unfired.

L

larrysmith

BANNED
BANNED
BANNED
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Location
Alberta
I read on this and other rifle forums about unfired, unmolested originals, still in the grease.
Every Russian rifle I get is still in the grease but have been fired. How does one tell if its unfired? Also how would a rifle leave the factory without being test fired? Please explain? So I know what to look for.
 
larrysmith said:
I read on this and other rifle forums about unfired, unmolested originals, still in the grease.
Every Russian rifle I get is still in the grease but have been fired. How does one tell if its unfired? Also how would a rifle leave the factory without being test fired? Please explain? So I know what to look for.
Click to expand...

It is very difficult if not impossible to find any Russian rifle that was in service during WWI or WWII that was not fired as they were sending them out the door into front line service as soon as finishing them. Plus after the war they never rebuilt them to as new condition as most other wining nations military's, they just changed what was worn out and not what still had some life left in it. Some other armies had their rifles rebuilt to as new condition.

As for the unfired part, most Milsurp collectors take it for granted that a few at most factory proof/sighting shots hardly qualify when they state unfired, they mean unfied since leaving the factory. It's like when you buy a new car and it has 25 kms on the clock from driving off the factory lot and on and off the transport truck and then into the the car dealers yard. Are you going to expect the new car to have 0 kms showing on the clock and engine never started before you buy a new car?
 
With the Lee-Enfield, the Proof testing required 2 rounds, 1 of which was a Q load (very high pressure) the other a Ball round which had been dipped in oil (to mate the locking lugs and recesses).

The rifle generally then was fired a few rounds for sighting. Once it was sighted-in, it was fired 5 rounds for accuracy. If it warranted it, it got 5 or 10 more. The best were put to one side and fired again to confirm what was suspected, then most went to Holland and Holland for conversion to T (Telescope) spec. THAT work then had to be tested as well.

So you buy a "brand-new, unfired, completely original Number 4 Mark 1(T)", in the box with all the goodies.... and it is in WONderful condition.

But it has around 30 rounds through it, very possibly more.

I don't think ANY made it out the door without at least 7 rounds through them.

When looking at a rifle, check the wear at the MUZZLE first, then check wear at the LEADE. You are looking for sharp, well-defined Lands standing up over the Grooves. Grooves should be as free from toolmarks as possible. There should be little to zero wear on the corners of the Lands immediately in front of the Chamber.

If you have that, then you should have a shooter.

Remember also, TIME is not on our side. Wood which was kiln-dried...... or even naturally-dried.... which was perfect when it was made into a stock, has had 70 years or more to lose fluid, to pick up fluid, to warp, to twist, in ways which you might not think even likely.

If you start with a good BARREL, you will have something which can be MADE to shoot.

With military rifles, I have found that generally you will get the best accuracy by ascertaining the military loading, then dropping it by 5 to 10% in velocity. This idea is not original to me; it was learned during the development of the Mark VII Ball .303 cartridge, 'way back in 1909.

Good luck!
 
The bolt head usually is a good giveaway of a rifle which have been shot. Unless the bolt head is replaceable and someone installed a new head, you should see a ghost ring around the firing pin if the rifle was fired more than a few rounds.
Usually, you should also see tool marks on the bolt head, if any, then, you may be facing a "cleaned up" bolt.
This, by any case, means a military rifle was not shot at all, as it can indicate a rifles coming out of refurb aursenal.
 
A rifle that is new in the factory packaging - like the No. 4 Mk. 2 Lee Enfields from the British war reserve, were unissued, but were fired in the course of manufacture and inspection.
I have a Ross Mk. III HG rifle that has no primer ring on the boltface, no brass scrapes in the magazine. It may well have never been used. But there is no way I could claim that it is unfired.
 
In addition to what Barbil said another indicator may be the tooling and marks and bluing on the inside of the receiver. The opening and closing of the action will wear the bluing and tooling marks down.
Re blued and roughly machined parts will be harder to tell.
Blued mag followers , sight slides and crowns will also wear as will internal trigger parts.
Cosmoline should be the only thing in a bore, presence of deeply embedded dirt and crud is a good sign of a used gun.

It is much easier to tell if a gun has been fired than if it has not.
 
A rifle that was not proof fired and fired to zero the sights would not have been accepted for military service. Most nations and armies have proof firing conventions with specific proof marks that were applied to the rifle in specified locations on completion of manufacture and proof firing. Firing a copper jacketed bullet will leave a copper bullet wash that can usually be seen by inspecting the bore at the muzzle end. Its a pretty safe assumption that most rifles were fired in the course of military service after manufacture or overhaul and initial proof firing, but there are rare and tantalizing exceptions out there - kind of like 80- 100 year old virgins. ;)
 
I find the concept of a 80-100 year old virgin about as far from "tantalizing" as one could get.
images
 
Is it even possible to buy something that has never even fired a shot?

Practically every firearm manufacturer I have ever heard of puts a few test rounds downrange just to ensure everything works fine.

Same with a brand new car or motorcycle, you'll never buy something with 000.0 km on the odometre, they have to prove it around the test track a bit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom