Hunting with FMJs...

berger

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I am not licensed to hunt...yet...but I was wondering why FMJs are illegal for hunting? Is it because they will pass through the animal?

Is there a link to a site where I can read about the logic behind the ban...or is logic not applicable here?? :D
 
Little hole both sides....game runs far...you no get game....might as well stay home....plus you gotta respect the game and if you aren't going to harvest it no point in shooting it (pests excepted).

So it's logical not to use FMJ's for hunting.
 
Good advice here, ONCE tried them on jackrabbits in Saskatchewan. With a nice accurate Remington 788, calibre 222, mounting a Leupold M8, 6 power.
Mid winter plenty cold, sickening sight to see those rabbits hit at 200 yards and run clean away.

My BAD....Never again!
 
DOH!! :slap:

Now I get it...the whole point of a lead jacket is so that it mushrooms and knocks down you target....I swear I knew that before I posted...Mea Culpa!

Thanks!
 
There are milsurp FMJ's and commercial FMJ's. They're not the same thing. Commercial FMJ's have thinner jackets and are made for hide hunting of coyotes and other varmints. They don't expand upon impact and make a wee hole going in. Sometimes they will go right through, but not always. They're no good for large game though.
Milsurp FMJ's are not made for hunting anything. They have thick jackets and are made to make the same size hole going in and out. They're absolutely no good for large game. It's illegal to hunt with them in most Provinces.
 
There are milsurp FMJ's and commercial FMJ's. They're not the same thing. Commercial FMJ's have thinner jackets and are made for hide hunting of coyotes and other varmints. They don't expand upon impact and make a wee hole going in. Sometimes they will go right through, but not always. They're no good for large game though.
Milsurp FMJ's are not made for hunting anything. They have thick jackets and are made to make the same size hole going in and out. They're absolutely no good for large game. It's illegal to hunt with them in most Provinces.

I am curious...not to get all gory...but for Military applications...wouldn't you want a lead bullet to take a man down rather than a FMJ to go right through?
 
It is against the Hague convention of 1899 (I think 1899).

I don't know much about military tactics, but I understand that for some at least it has some tactical resoning though too: a wounded enemy takes up more of the enemies resources than a dead one would.

RG

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why FMJs are illegal for hunting?

I would not use em on Coyotes or any animal. I see no reason to make an animal suffer just to save a few $$$$. Buy a box of soft points for $15. Its not like you will be shooting tons of ammo at the coyote.

I am curious...not to get all gory...but for Military applications...wouldn't you want a lead bullet to take a man down rather than a FMJ to go right through?

* Because FMJ bullets do not expand, they are more effective at piercing armor.
* They are more durable and withstand rough handling on the battlefield.
* Their rounded tips permit proper transit up the feed ramp, whereas the usage of hollow point bullets can cause failures to feed.
 
The armies of the world discovered some time ago that if you shot a man and killed him outright you only took out one man. However, if you woulded him it took 2 stretcher bearers, ambulance driver and doctor, and all the mash staff to take care of him. Ties up a lot of people. Besides, wouldnt the FMJ be more inclined to ricochet?
 
Look at the way a military FMJ is made, particularly those designed for full sized cartridges like the .303, .30/06 etc. the bullet is a spitzer so the largest percentage of weight is at the base of the bullet, in fact there was a .303 bullet that even had a wood plug in the cavity between the lead core and the bullet nose to maximize this situation. Another consideration is that a bullet seldom if ever hits point on, as it flies in a yaw. So, you have this butt heavy bullet, flying in a yaw relitive to the target, and that bullet suddenly meets resistance, like a man's chest for instance. What happens? Well the bullet swaps ends, and now you have an exposed lead base facing forwards, or maybe not, because the jacket is purposely weakened at the cannelure so it breaks in two. Now you have two bullet tracks tearing around inside ripping up tissue, organs and blood vessels.

If you want to get around the Hague Convention, this is how you do it. I used to have quite a collection of military FMJ's that I had collected over years of shooting. Many, though not all, were bent in half, and ready to break in the manner I described.

It is interesting that a solid designed for big game hunting is a good killer where as the military FMJ is a horrendous wounder. The solid, when properly designed, is short for caliber, has parallel sides and a hemispherical or blunt nose. Penetration is solely a function of velocity when the bullet cannot upset, so the faster the bullet goes, the deeper it penetrates.

Neither are cast rifle or handgun bullets designed to expand, yet with flat noses they penetrate well, and have a reputation of producing clean kills.
 
Which brings about the thought that many have probably had at one time or another. What about cutting the military tip a little to allow it to open and mushroom?

I've tried it only once in my younger years with a 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser miltary ammo on a log. The jacket basically separated and only went into the log a little and the lead went forward much deeper and mushroomed. However, knowing that most military FMJ's are open at the back, I wonder if jacket separation could start and occur while still in the barrel? If the jacket stays logded in the barrel, this could be disasterous on the next shot for sure! But could this really occur?

Any wild stories on this?
 
:confused:

I wonder what "emergency hunting" is........

I don't hunt for meat, being somewhat urban I buy it at the grocery store, that being said, I do intend on using my M14 as a hunting tool if the need arises, the "emergency hunting" being having an alternate means of getting meat if an emergency situation arises and I need to leave my primary home for an extended period of time. It's part of my emergency prepareness SOP.
 
Which brings about the thought that many have probably had at one time or another. What about cutting the military tip a little to allow it to open and mushroom?

I've tried it only once in my younger years with a 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser miltary ammo on a log. The jacket basically separated and only went into the log a little and the lead went forward much deeper and mushroomed. However, knowing that most military FMJ's are open at the back, I wonder if jacket separation could start and occur while still in the barrel? If the jacket stays logded in the barrel, this could be disasterous on the next shot for sure! But could this really occur?

Any wild stories on this?

ive done it before with a single shot .223 (savage 24-F) on groundhogs. theres actually a hollow tip on the white box .223 FMJ, so if you file down the tip they are like ghetto hollowpoints. this was a single shot however - and after every shot i looked down the barrel and checked for any blockages from jacket separation. i had no problems. honestly its just not worth the risk/hassle and you should never do this in a gun you cant easily check the bore in.

with the white box value pack .223 hollowpoint varmint rounds going for $17 for 40 there is no point %@$#ing around with safety over a couple bucks in savings.
 
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