Hunting with solids

1899

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Not to stir the pot or seem like a troll, but I have read many articles about using solids in africa, even on plains game. This is especially true when I read about hunting for meat in Africa. And on the Barnes website it says...

"Spitzer-shaped solids-which are deadly for hunting varmints and fur-bearing animals, yet create minimal damage to valuable pelts-are offered in .22 (.224 inch) through .338 (.338-inch) calibers."

There seems to be data out there that supports the effectiveness of solids on game. Does anyone have experience with solids?
 
many European countries allow hunting with solids or FMJs. Specifically for the purpose of minimizing the damage to the fur/meat.
Hunting in those countries is however very well (read strict) regulated. Nobody takes "less than perfect" shots as you pay for a miss dearly. Nevermind a wounded and unrecovered animal.
Same regulations provide you sometimes with limits as far as bullet weight / caliber for individual species. Weird to say the least.
Most of the WSMs wouldn't make the cut for the case length limits, but the 6.5 Swedish would. HEHE

African Hunters follow some of the finest European traditions.
remember: they do not hunt for food !!!! Pure sportmanship and pleasure.
I've seen animals shot with FMJs. Never with solids though.
There were usually heart or neck shots.
 
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Tried the 110gr 30 cal FMJ's on a yote once. I hit him at fifty yards broadside while he was running by. He kept on a going like nothing happened. Followed a pathetic blood trail for the better part of the day and eventually lost the trail, never seeing him again.
Personally I am going to stick with a varmint style bullet. You know what the outcome will be it you tag the animal and if you do miss, the chance of a richocet are kept to a minimum.
 
I used 80gr. FMj's in a 243 years ago for coyotes, they died just as quick as being hit by a soft point, just way less pelt damage. The only problem with fmj's or solids is when you see the old triple skip(ricochet) and you wonder where did that bullet go, not much to worry in the wide open speces but if the area has any livstock or buildings about, it's a no go.
 
Big solids are made for penetration on big, mean, PO'd, beasties. They're not the same as a commercial fmj used for varmint sized beasties. Commercial fmj's are made for fur hunting.
90 grain fmj's out of my .243 leave a puncture wound and a very dead ground hog.
 
I saw some non-exspanding hollowpoint handgun bullets on a website somewhere. Apparebtly for people that want the extra penatration on their animals not in jail.
 
I do not use solids forr fur hunting, but high expansion bullets like the Speer TNT and the Sierra Varminter.
These bullets go in and don't come out!
Coyotes , foxes and wolves hit with theem go down hard with on hole99% of the time.
I say 99% becuase NO BULLET is going to do it 100%.
I have seen one coyote hit with a .222 Remington from 40 yards that had tweo holes and a piece of lung hanging out the offside.
The dog ran over 60 yards into the bush!:eek:

This is the only one I can remember , however, and we still recovered it.
Any other coyote that has been hit with a varmint bullet form our.222's has gone down right now!:D
Cat
 
I for one would never fire a pointed FMJ at anything I intended to KILL

in large calibers, a flat nosed solid, something along the lines of the Speer Grand Slam SOLID, would probably work very well when you need extreme penetration, like hippos, rhinos, and ele's

I had a MatchKing pencil through a couple times on coyote and wolf with no expansion, and it was poor results to say the least.
 
nothing really

the term solid is usually stuck to a large caliber (375" +) non expanding bullet
spe2476.jpg



FMJ is more of a small bore military term, at least to me

 
Since I began planning for my Tanzania trip coming up this summer I have looked into the use of solids fairly extensively, and frankly I learned quite a bit. The subject is extensive, so I will just try to hit the high points.

Firstly what is the difference between a solid and a FMJ? Solids are meant to cut a full diameter hole and penetrate in a straight line through all tissue and bone. This penetration is aided by the construction of the bullet which may include a steel liner under the copper jacket, a hardened perpetrator core as with the Speer AGS solid, or it maybe a mono metal bullet made from a brass alloy. A FMJ is simply any bullet which has no exposed core, or devise built into the nose to aid in expansion. Military bullets tend to be FMJ, and many of these bullets a horrible wounders because the base of the bullet is heavier, resulting in a tendency to tumble in tissue. Often these bullets break at the cannular resulting in numerous bullet tracks throughout the tissue. This is considered a bad thing on game, so soft point bullets are designed to expand, thus becoming nose heavy and penetrate in a straight line while the true solid penetrates in a straight line because it is short for caliber and the sides of the bullet do not taper, and because of it's hardened construction.

A solid can fail, and this failure can come in several ways. If the solid is not solid enough it can rivet, or bend, and either will result in the loss of straight line deep penetration which is counted on when a solid is chosen. Often in articles about African game hunting there are pictures of solids which have failed, and these failures often show the heel of the bullet squashed. This is because the bullet will never strike perpendicular to the target, resulting in pressure loading on the side of the bullet. Solids should be short, and if the solid is too long they will hook and tumble, and there again straight line, deep penetration is lost.

Bullet design is equally important in solids as it is in soft points, and I'm not just talking about bullet material here, but the actual shape of the bullet. The bullet should have a hemispherical nose, truncated cone or similar shape other wise the mass of the bullet is moved too far rearward and the bullet will tend to tumble in tissue. Further the most effective solids have some sort of cutting band just ahead of the cannular, and this cutting band prevents tissue from closing up around the bullet wound, and bleeding and shock are aided as a result.

There is a new bullet design from Germany called the Superpenetrator. This bullet incorporates a small metal disk on the nose of the bullet, and the result is that this disk creates a bow wave as it passes through tissue, and the sides of the bullet are never touched by tissue or fluid, and as a result of that there is nothing to move the bullet off coarse.

Owners of expensive double rifles have claimed damage from mono-metal bullets, and tend to use bullets of the old Kynoch design which are still being made by Woodleigh.

The solids I am taking to Tanzania are .375-286 gr mono-metal bullets from PMP. Although these bullets do not have a true cutting band, the nose of the bullet is slightly undersized, so the deep, squarely cut canullar will have the same effect. They are slightly shorter than the more common 300 gr solids, so I am confident of good results.

Common wisdom when hunting buffalo, is to load the magazine with solids have have the first shot a soft point. the logic is that the first bullet than will not penetrate through the target animal and wound a second one. Then if follow up shots are required they are solids fired into the length of the buffalo as it is trying to escape.
 
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Yeah, there is a difference between fmj's and solids.

I have seen 'hunting solids' before, although never used one or seen its' effect on game. But i suspect that there are plenty of times when a solid would not only be adequate, but a GOOD choice.

However - our laws are designed to be simple, easy and universal. They can't change them with every bullet design that comes out. Therefore, our regs state 'No NON-EXPANDING rounds'. Which would unfortunately cover specially-designed hunting solids.

Should we change the law? Maybe - but really it's not like we don't have a pretty good seleciton of excellent hunting bullets already.
 
Well nowadays, technically, the FMJ (full metal jacket) would be a metal jacket, but still have a lead core. Solid is usually referring to bullets that are made of one homogenous metall alloy, such as the Barnes solids or the A-Square monolithic solids.

'Solids' has been a rather generic term for many years however and simply was referring to a bullet with a full metal jacket that would not expand on impact. The bullets completely made of a homogenous metal alloy are a relatively new item in the great scheme of things.......

One of the last boxes of Hornady 500 grain .458 bullets I bought said they were 'Solids' not FMJ's which causes the newer technocrats to have a big spazzola. To be politically correct it should have read 500 grain Hornady FMJ's..............it seems to me we get way to picky sometimes.

1899..........I have used solids for hide hunting in .22 and .25 caliber. No problems as long as I solidly lunged them. I have used solids in .375, .416 and .458 on game in Africa. Worked fine. Shot a buff once with a big Hornady solid....oops I mean FMJ......it went in behind the off shoulder and out the far shoulder. The bull ran about 75 yards with blood blowing out of his nose all over the bush, then dropped and skidded on his nose for a few feet and rolled over.

In my experience they will not drop a lungshot animal as fast as a good soft-point, assuming adequate penetration. But, most horror stories I have heard about solids usually turned out to be poor or marginal hits in the first place.

Also, lets face it, large caliber solids punch bigger holes than small caliber solids. In Africa most countries have a dangerous game mimimum caliber restriction of .375, so solids used for the big stuff are that diameter or larger.

As a side note, they are often used to take small game with the big guns while on safari. I have seen guys shoot steinbuck and duiker (about the size of an Arctic hare) with .300 Mags and 180 grain soft-points that virtually blew the poor little antelope in half. A 300 grain solid from a .375 just punches a .375 caliber hole straight through.......minimal damage.
 
Good write up Boomer............the whole FMJ and Solid thing just depends on what expert you talk to.

In years gone bye many PH's just wanted you to use solids with buffalo, but now that we have Barnes X, Nolser partition, Swift A-frames and what not the usual is as you stated...........a good soft-point first followed by solids.

A-Square and a few others are firm believers in a wide meplat on solids/fmj's designed for dangerous game.

It is interesting to punch a few solids through a ballistics medium and see the actual wound channel it produces..................not just a straight pencil like hole as most people would expect.
 
Sometimes solids are actually solid, whereas FMJ are a full metal jacket encasing a lead or steel core.

Here is the Impala bullets link from South Africa. Notice the "cutting" edge, it is similar to a wadcutter. Again, the point is effectiveness on game, with minimal meat loss. I know, what is 2lbs of lost meat on a moose? Nevertheless, I think it is interesting.

http://www.impalabullets.co.za/design.htm

edit: I started a reply before Boomer's great post, and left the computer!
 
Foxer said:
I have seen 'hunting solids' before, although never used one or seen its' effect on game. But i suspect that there are plenty of times when a solid would not only be adequate, but a GOOD choice.

nothing in Canada requires a solid. not even close.

Should we change the law? Maybe - but really it's not like we don't have a pretty good seleciton of excellent hunting bullets already.

there ya go
 
If the game you are hunting has hidea an inch thick like some african game does, then consider a solid. But for NA game, the closest I will use to a solid, is a hard cast lead slug out of a 45-70.
A large meplat on a solid gives a substantial about of shock, without expansion.
 
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