Hypothetical rifle built, advice sought:

Luckyorwhat

Luckyorwhat

BANNED
BANNED
BANNED
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
Location
Calgary
I'm looking at ordering a .338 Lapua rifle in the next 3 months, and need people who've done it's advice on the build.

Use is just LR shooting, and possibly LR plinking in the mountains. In such a situation, what's the heaviest rifle to carry (in a back-pack/drag-bag) over a few km hiking distance? Anyone do this?

I'm planning to start with a Montana barreled action: http://www.montanarifleman.com/barreled_actions.htm

And my preliminary research has suggested chromolly rather than stainless for the barrel, but not sure what for the action. But I'm not sure, what metal types are advised? Chromolly comes 'in the white' while I believe stainless is coated black.

Re: barrel I've thought about it and want a threaded muzzle, so I can use a muzzle-brake when alone, but not when in company.

http://www.montanarifleman.com/barrelpricing.htm

At first thought I figured to go with the cheaper barrel length, but more research suggested getting a longer barrel for both velocity and leaving more un-cut metal at the chamber-end so I can cut it down and re-chamber it, instead of replacing the whole barrel later. Is this right, or is the 28" blank the smart move over a 33", it's obviously stiffer, and the 'B' dimension for the chamber seems to be irrespective of barrel length. If I had a 28" barrel re-chambered, how much would I lose and would it be detrimental?
http://www.montanarifleman.com/barreltechinfo.htm


But what contours and combination (flutes?) are recommended? Get the heaviest contour and flute it, so it's lighter but still stiff? http://www.montanarifleman.com/barreltechinfo.htm

For the Stock I looked at the various makers who the action would fit, and like McBros at first, but then saw the Knoxx Axiom and want it. It would be great for when shooting without a brake, I think.
http://www.knoxx.com/products/AxiomVS.php


Is there anything (else?) I need to specify to the builder? Do I have to ask them to drill and tap scope mounts, and do I need to have a particular mount in mind already? I've spoken preliminarily on the phone and they sound great and accommodating, but I want to have my #### together before taking it to te next step.

Anyone who's had a rifle built from the ground-up, if you could tell me what you did and what you wish you did it'd be appreciated.

Thanks;
Scott
 
"...'in the white'..." Well, that means it has no finish at all. SS has less maitenance issues. In any case, with a magnumblaster you don't want a light weight rifle. The felt recoil is significantly increased with less weight.
"...have to ask them to...need to specify to the builder..." Normally, you have to tell the builder in advance exactly what you want. Sights or scope & mounts, barrel, trigger, etc. They'll either install what you gave them or get it for you. Them getting it may save a bit of money, but not likely. The worst thing that happens, sometimes, is a customer changing his mind about what he wants in mid-build. Makes smithies crazy.
Nor do you want a removeable muzzle brake. MB's are kind of pricey and the last thing you'd want is to lose it.
Personally, I don't think there 's any need for a magnum of any kind for hunting anything. Plinkers, they ain't. The cost of ammo alone eliminates plinking with a magnum. Especially a .338 Lapua. I certainly wouldn't want to lug one around mountain tops either.
Don't even think about dragging a $2500+ rifle around in a bag. There are slings that go over both shoulders and leave your hands free.
 
Actually it's a bag that also had back-pack straps attachable, it's good, lots of protection as a rifle case and a hard plastic bit to protect the crown. (would be funny though, walking down logging road, dragging rifle behind)

I say plinking because I see all sorts of fun people have shooting way past 1000, and would like to have fun too. If you figure in the gas you take to drive to the range and time, something under a dollar a shot isn't really unaffordable.

Anyway roger that on the steel and the specifications, I'll be sure to have an idea of exactly what I want and then let him tell me what he can do and what I do afterwards.

And just re-researched that stainless is easier to cut than chromolly, and,
From Glen Zediker's article, pp. 20-21 of the July '05 GUNS magazine:

"Stainless will not shoot one bit better than chromemoly, but will shoot better for a little longer. Expect another 10- to 15-percent longer sharp-edge accuracy from stainless. The reason is in how the steel 'wears' as throat erosion progresses. Chromemoly tends to get rough (like sandpaper) whereas stainless steel tends to form cracks with still-smooth areas between them (like a dry lakebed). Interestingly, though, if we were going to shoot each barrel forever, the chromemoly would probably shoot the best past either's prime. When stainless groups open up, they tend to do so abruptly. Chromemoly group sizes cone outward more slowly."

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=1737676#post1737676


But I'd feel inconsiderate bringing a braked gun to a line. Most likely I just have it threaded, then put a protector on the threads until I see if it even needs a brake with the Axiom stock. Planning on US optics, and aiui their eye-relief can be shorter, so brake might be needed or might not.
 
I don't think you will be shooting a .338 Lapua for a buck a shot. I don't reload for this calibre myself, but I suspect it to be much higher than that. The cheapest I've seen factory ammo lately hovers in the $6.50 range.
 
That's why I phoned, they do but it costs a bit extra, bringing price closer to 1250 for a barreled action in the white, rough estimate.

Maybe with Canadian prices and factoring in brass life it could be $2, but it's moot.


Anyone gone to a gunsmith and said, "I want a rifle that can do this, build it." before?
 
Luckyorwhat

I don't want to leave a wet mark on your long range parade, but why would you select a Montana action for your long range platform?

There is nothing wrong with the Montana action for what it's designers intended it to be. The Montana guys envisioned a inexpensive, robust controlled feed, stone reliable, pre 64 style action that would be used in a hardcore hunting environment. Pull the trigger on a Montana and be rewarded with a big heavy thunk that grantees ignition every time.
The "features' designed in to every Montana (such as the ignition system) are counter productive in a 1000 yard rifle.

Montana actions tolerances that are intended to keep the rifle functioning "no matter what" and to keep costs in line things are not exactly what they should be for a 1000 yard rifle. The Montana's internals will need to be blueprinted as will (most likely) the external and scope mounting surfaces.


With reference to weight issues a Remington based platform (Stiller or Lawton are a couple of affordable ones) will start at 2 pounds lighter than a comparable Montana. You should also check the weight of the knox stock.


Changing to a Remington based platform solves all of the stock, scope mount, and trigger issues that you are going to meet head first....Well you are going to meet your scope head first if you crawl the stock on that knox thingy! :D


What you are suggesting is an uphill battle that would be akin to taking a single shot bench rest action and converting it to a dangerous game rifle......You don't see that sort of thing done very often.



Good luck!
 
A BAT Action, Kreiger barrel, Jewel trigger, and a McMillan stock are an example of the raw materials you need to build your custom Lapua target rifle; then you need a craftsman to put them together. Probably $3.5K in raw materials and a $100/hr for a good shop. Even handloaded, .338 Lapua cartridges will make you reassess the household budget with every press of the trigger.

When I had my .416 Rigby, I was shooting 100 rounds a week, and the cost for a working guy was depressing. Norma brass was $180.00 for 50, a pound and a half of powder per week of shooting, and 350 gr X bullets were setting me back a dollar each back then, and on top of that I still wanted to shoot my handguns and target rifles.

By comparison, a tweaked Remington 700 Sedero in .300 Magnum with 200 or 220 gr MK's will hit as far as you can see for less money than the raw materials will cost to build a custom .338 Lapua; and will jump around more than enough to let you know the rifle went off when you press the trigger.

Long range shooting is something that you have to do a lot of to get good. The Lapua is a fine long range cartridge, but due to it's cost and power it is not the place to start. Mystic makes a strong argument for the use of small bores as long range shooting tools, and fast .22's or 6mm's with heavy for caliber bullets will allow you to send many more rounds down range for less money than even a .300 magnum, without the recoil issue to deal with.
 
Last edited:
I recognize there are other good cartridiges, but for purposes of having growth room I choose the .338. What point is there in spending thousands on another caliber, then wanting a bigger one later. And imo the main cost of reloading is time.

X-fan it's all $$$. I was trying to get an Armalite AR-30 (.338, $1500), wanted one badly, but they just wouldn't ship it. Talked to Canadian importer, US exporters, manufacturer, the State Dept just won't allow them to leave (though applications are on file as we speak). Rather than a custom build if I were to pay big $$ I'd just go Sako or AI, but that's not affordable.

I can't, ever, put $6k on a rifle. With Montana the whole thing can come out, shipped, nearer $2k.

I've found other manufacturers, Surgeon, Dakota, Lazzeroni, Nesika, Jerry Stiller. But prices are doubled at least.

But please elaborate on the ignition system, this is exactly why I posted here. Is the firing pin too heavy or something? Or do you mean that as a hunting design it's tolerances are too loose? I've read that you can 'true up' bolt faces by putting an abrasive paste on them and working the bolt over and over, until working surfaces are smoothed out - is this relevant to what you mean? To be honest, I'm Ok with a 1moa rifle, don't need and probably can't use sub.
 
Ah yes the $$$!

Given your budget I would go with a Re-barreled Remington, Savage, or Stevens. You could build a budget minded rifle for under your budget and still be farther ahead than you would with the Montana setup.

As Boomer suggested I would go with a 300 Win (will reach out to 1500 yards) or one of the smaller bores. The big 338 are neat specialist tools, but they are not the place to learn the long range craft.

Fixating on a specific cartridge is a mistake many beginners (myself included) make.

Cost wize you can shoot almost 4 -223 75gr amax bullets to every 1-338 Lapua loaded with a 300 Sierra....Starting out the smaller bullets just make more sense.


Spend the savings on reloading gear and bullets...
 
Luckyorwhat,

Given your budget constraints a quality 338 Lapua rifle build is not attainable.
The good new is that there is more than one fast 338 available!

If you are bent on a high performance 338 the 338/300 Ultra (338 Edge) will deliver the performance of the 338 Lapua and then some.....
The 338 Edge pushes the lethal (albiet somewhat messy) 300gr SMK to 2900-3000fps.

Here is a video of the Edge/300gr SMK in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHEa2ZZ1oA

That work for ya? ;)
 
I have had the pleasure of owning a big boomer in every cal from 22 to 338. All of it works. The big difference is cost, recoil, and weight.

For LR plinking, the 338 is impressive but unless you enjoy launching lead towards the mile, a bit overkill. By the time you learn to load, shoot and dope, you will be on your next barrel. Running costs for that barrel will be $1.25 per shot give or take and another $600 to replace - $2500 of fun.

I have been playing with a 223 and 75gr Amax. NO issue at 1000m. This spring I intend to push it to 1500yds. If that works, find enough scope elevation to go to one mile.

My 6.5's and 7's have no issue reaching out to a mile. With new bases in the works, hopefully 2500yds. Not sure how much more growth you could want.

Was shooting with a guy using a very nice 308. Bullets starting tumbling just under 1450yds.

Did the big 30's for a number of years and the new 208gr Amax is a wonderfully accessible bullet. I think a 300WM is the ideal launching platform for this bullet. Cost is one thing, shootability is another.

The LR ballistics and hitting power of a 300gr MK leaving at 2800fps is impressive BUT you will need a very effective muzzle brake. Learn how to be a very good shot off a bipod. Hopefully, have a good spotter because you are going to be knocked off your scope ALOT until you learn how to ride this bronco. That also means lower scope mag which means as distance increases, you see less.

I enjoy spotting my own shots. Otherwise, its just alot of noise.

Good luck with your build. Personally, I would recommend either a 7RM or 300WM. In fact the Savage 7RM FP's that Frontier Firearms is blowing out would make the perfect first rifle. Spin on a brake and you have a sub MOA 1 mile capable rig for around $700. But if you have your mind set on a big 338 - fly at it.

Remember to save part of your budget for a decent rangefinder.

As to performance, the 340Wby is the smallest of this bunch and will/should push a 300gr MK at around 2600/2700fps. The 338RUM/Lapua - 2800fps+. The 338-300RUM - 2900fps. The 338 Edge/Mystic/Lapua AI 3000fps+. The 338-416Rigby AI/ 338-378 Wby 3100/3250fps. The 338-408CT 3350/3400fps.

Given similar barrel lengths.

Jerry
 
marlin1895gs said:
not to hijack the thread, but how similar are the ballistics of a 340 wby mag?
Click to expand...

In my rifles, about 60 fps difference with 250 gr bullets. For the money, find a used Sako TRG-S (995) in 338 Lapua and go from there. Should be able to track one down for $1200 or so. Put a decent scope on it and start practicing. Later, when you decide what you really want in your rifle, you can change it a bit at a time, spend a little less money in one shot. - dan
 
Luckyorwhat said:
Thanks guys, based on input I'm re-evaluating all aspects (except caliber). And especially the stock.
Click to expand...

Quit kidding around with that 338...puny for long range


bulletsizes.jpg

From left to right: .223, .338 lapua, 50BMG, 20MM Vulcan


20MM is best for beginners
 
Performance vs costs starting with the most performance and highest price/recoil

338 - 300gr MK, 30 - 208 to 240gr, 7mm - 162 to 180gr, 6.5 - 139/142gr, 6mm - 105 to 115gr, 22cal - 75 to 90gr.

I shoot alot of 6.5 139gr Scenars and love them. Also, having a hoot with my new 223 and 75/80gr amax.

I have sold off my 300RUM, still haven't put together my 338 Mystic and put aside my 7mm Mystic for the near term.

Hopefully, another 6mm project in 2008.

For general plinking, the smaller cals will do everything the bigger ones will. If competing or hunting, then pick the one best suited for your tasks.
Jerry
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom