I am starting to hate my AR! Please help!!Update post 65! Problem solved!!
- Thread starter Still alive
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r34skyline
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
CLP is #### dude. There is a case for mobil one or any other motor oil having excellent anti shear characteristics and surface lubrication properties, althought IIRC atf is the better option, but clp? thats the most overrated crap they sell as the "awesome" gun oil
I should clarify my reasoning for using the slip2k ewg is simply it has a lower operating temperature than most greases and don't migrate.
OP instead of reading post after post of everyone bickering, here is an article that neatly packages the gun lubricant question.
http://www.grantcunningham.com/2006/05/lubrication-101/
Still alive
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Cool read! Thanks!
Milofficer
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I used CLP in the Army, but I have now moved to Slip 2000 EWL. I like that it doesn't separate or burn off like CLP did, and it's non-toxic to boot. I do miss the smell of CLP though.
There is compelling evidence that FireClean is little more than plain vegetable oil, most likely Canola oil. You can save a ton of money and try using Canola oil instead of FireClean
Canola oil does have a legitimate use as a mechanical lubricant, but it will oxidize over time and become gummy, so keep that in mind. Don't take my word for it, though - read the science for yourself: http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/a-closer-look-at-fireclean-and-canola-oil/
There is compelling evidence that FireClean is little more than plain vegetable oil, most likely Canola oil. You can save a ton of money and try using Canola oil instead of FireClean
Canola oil does have a legitimate use as a mechanical lubricant, but it will oxidize over time and become gummy, so keep that in mind. Don't take my word for it, though - read the science for yourself: http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/a-closer-look-at-fireclean-and-canola-oil/Still alive
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Ok guys,
Final question just to completely reassure myself...
Now that my gun is working with massive lubing needed.
My question is: Is it normal for a high end AR to need a lot of lube to run properly? Or for that matter, any brand of AR?
Someone posted here earlier that a high end AR should run fairly dry reliably so this got me thinking if my gun was unusual or normal.
What are your experiences?
Final question just to completely reassure myself...
Now that my gun is working with massive lubing needed.
My question is: Is it normal for a high end AR to need a lot of lube to run properly? Or for that matter, any brand of AR?
Someone posted here earlier that a high end AR should run fairly dry reliably so this got me thinking if my gun was unusual or normal.
What are your experiences?
When I first hit the ground with L119s we were told to run it in several levels of oil for several types of climates. Back then we were told to run it lightly oiled for normal (temperate) heavily oiled for hot & humid (jungle), an oily film for hot & dry (desert) and almost dry for cold. We found out pretty quick that during our operations the bloody things like to run wet (moderately oiled) in all conditions except arctic where we ran them lightly oiled without trouble. Anything that has it's history in the Armalite Rifle likes to be wet.
Whenever you pull a rifle out to go to the range, whether it's been on blocks for a day or a year, be sure to give it a weapons (pre-fire for the civvies) check before you put a single round down the pipe. Field strip it, take a look down the pipe to ensure there are no blockages, check out the components of the BCG for wear/loose staking/cracks, the chamber and the frame for undue wear or cracks/flakes, inspect the trigger group and safety to see if any springs are out/missing or there are any visible cracks any where therein. Then reassemble the rifle, place lubricant on any bearing surfaces, the bolt shaft and the sides of the BCG as well as a drop on the springs and hinges for the dust cover and the back and sides of the charging handle. Then do a function check.
Function check involves ensuring the rifle is cleared and no charged magazines are present. while always pointing in a safe direction... With magazine out safety on, rack rifle and pull trigger if the hammer does not fall it's a pass. Then mag out, safety off pull trigger, if the hammer falls its a pass. Then mag out, safety off rack rifle while holding the trigger down at the same time, release trigger to reset, if hammer does not fall its a pass. Then holding trigger at reset pull trigger, if hammer falls its a pass. If at any time the safety can be engaged while the hammer is on the firing pin, the safety has failed. If any one of these required checks is not a pass the weapon is unsafe. Release bolt and hammer down on the rifle. Place a magazine in the rifle and rack the rifle. If the bolt locks back then the BHD is functioning. Then release the bolt catch, if the bolt closes the catch is functioning. Remove magazine, hammer down & secure rifle.
It sounds like a lot, but after a dozen or so times it only takes a few minutes to do.
-S.
I find if i run my ars clean but dry after 250-300 rounds, things start to behave weird.
If i run them clean but wet im good for 1000-1200 rounds before things start to get weird
i run colts, where I am is never freezing but always humid.
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Still alive
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Your Colts sound normal Mike. Mine died at 30-40 rds with residual G96 from only 2 months of sitting in the safe. That's why I was wondering. If mine lasted 250-300 rds, I would have completed the night shoot with no problems. Round count was under 200!
Still alive
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Good advice for a weapons check! Mine did all that fine but failed when actually fired. I'm pretty sure the lubing was the issue but I just wanted to know if mine was unusually needy or normal. From Mike's post, sounds like my VLTOR is very sensitive to running lightly lubed or dry!
Also if i run them dry, cleaning after is a real pita. carbon foulup gets really stuck on there, whereas with a generous amount of clp cleaning is really easy.
maybe you have really tight tolerances.
my vltor uppers tend to be a lot tighter and less tolerable to fouling so i tend to run them both really wet, I would suggest you do the same.
Still alive
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My thoughts exactly.
I just wanted confirmation and reassurance that I'm not just covering up some other issue by over lubing the gun and only temporarily solving the problem whereas the real problem may be something else we haven't noticed yet.
I dont think so, my spr runs pretty tight, it was my first vltor and I found that the bolt ran pretty tight in it, I tried a colt bcg, a bcm bcg and a spikes bcg and they all seemed to run tighter than my other ARs. But it was also my first AR in mid lenght gas system as well, so the bolt travel isnt as violent and that could be throwing my impression of the bolt behavior being tighter somewhat.
It doesnt bother me that much, i can shoot sub moa consistently with it so thats what matters. But yes it needs to be wet.
Maybe other vltor owners can chime in, but thats my impression of them so far.
Not all uppers behave the same even though they are qualified as milspec.
Still alive
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Thanks Mike for the reassurance!
When you work the charging handle, do you find it moves smoothly or feels like it's hanging up? I had one BCG with a bad cam pin that would rub on the side of the upper receiver and I had to file it down.
I've got a Vltor MUR1 upper and have used an Ares Armor FA phosphate BCG with a 10.5" barrel and Daniel Defense SA chrome BCG with a 12.5" barrel and I don't run it any wetter than my other ARs. Just a light wiping of lube (Fireclean) on it and haven't had any failures doing mag dumps etc. Mind you, if it's been more than a couple weeks in the safe, I'll re-lube it the day before I hit the range 'cause I know the lube I'm using migrates when standing vertical in the safe.
I've got a Vltor MUR1 upper and have used an Ares Armor FA phosphate BCG with a 10.5" barrel and Daniel Defense SA chrome BCG with a 12.5" barrel and I don't run it any wetter than my other ARs. Just a light wiping of lube (Fireclean) on it and haven't had any failures doing mag dumps etc. Mind you, if it's been more than a couple weeks in the safe, I'll re-lube it the day before I hit the range 'cause I know the lube I'm using migrates when standing vertical in the safe.
Still alive
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Funny you mentioned the stiff charging handle. I distinctly remember on my second stage ( when the first failures happened), on the "Load and make ready" command, when doing my press check, the bolt had to be pushed forward with the forward assist. I commented to my RO that that had never happened before as the bolt always closed after a press check, on its own when released.
There is no obvious wear I can see on the cam pin or any other part of the BCG.
I had switched from a heavy buffer to a standard one so, normally, the charging handle feels smooth enough.
Trinni, you confirmed what I thought happened...the lube migrated down the gun. That was my thought also. My worry, as posted earler, was that the lubing may be covering up another more serious undiagnosed issue, but it doesn't seem to be the case now.
now im feeling worried, gonna go check my spr.
