I desperaetly need a Shilo Sharps 45/100

eaglesnester

eaglesnester

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I am going to order a 45/100 Sharps from Big Timber Montana. I suspect this rifle is going to be $4000.00 plus by the time I am finished. I know nothing about loading BP, I am a smokeless powder re-loader for 5 different calibers. I also shoot 50 and 54 caliber rock locks and cap locks. I would like to know if there is any place in Canada where I can purchase brass for the, shoot today kill tomorrow gun? Then there is the recoil. Is it excessive with 500gr plus bullets? I am not recoil shy by any means however when I shoot I like to shoot a lot. There are times when my shoulder is black and blue and I cant shoot for 4 weeks or so until I heal up. The 300 Weatherby and the 378 Weatherby are about the hardest kicking rifles I own. How bad is the recoil? What gear do I need to buy besides a lead furnace and bullet molds? I only want to hear from Sharps shooters.

Cheers & TIghter Groups: Eaglesnester
 
I really cannot recommend a 45-100 ; they kick like a mule I had a 45-120 in a Farmingale Shilo Sharps. It was a lovely gun but I ended up trading it off because of the recoil. I think you would be far better off to get a 40 cal gun for that reason. I have several rifles and have shot my 38-56 at 500 meters (550 yards) and it will knock a ram over at that distance. I have a faster twist barrel which allows me to shoot 300 grain bullets in the gun. I am not sure of my numbers but I think going to 40 cal would allow you to shoot bullets in the 350 - 400 grain range which would have similar ballistic coefficients to the 45 caliber bullets in the 500 grain range. If you intend to shoot 1000 yards then maybe the heavier caliber but I think you need to find someone with a 45-100 or 120 and try shooting 10 or 15 shots out of it.

cheers mooncoon
 
I am a Winchester shooter, so you may want to stop reading right here, eaglesnestr...lol. I shoot a model 1886 in. 45/90 WCF, not a lot different from a .45/100. I have shot it both black and smokeless powder, 405 grain bullets. You had better not be recoil sensitive. As my dad used to say, it would "kill on both ends", but I shot it lots. Actually, offhand was okay, but you better grit your teeth if you're going to shoot it prone, or sitting. A friend had a Shiloh Sharps years ago, in. 50/90. It was actually tamer than my '86. Heavier barrel for one thing. There, I shot his Sharps once, so technically, that makes me a "Sharps shooter". YMMV
 
I just got back from using the Shiloh before I put her away for the winter. Getting to cold for me, and its hard to use gloves on the set trigger.

There isnt alot in common with the light bullets used in lever guns and the big single shot numbers that start at 500 grains. The stock shape, weight, drop, everything is different. Same with the round ball muzzle loaders there is no comparison whatsoever, a 54 cal with a minie ball is pretty mild in comparison. You really need to consider where your brass is going to come from, I beleive Shooters Choice will carry some as will Bullet barn, and there are gun shows ext.... But you are looking at a substantial outlay in cash for a few hundred peices of brass. Money that can be spent on better quality sights or a fancier gun. Your probably going to want at least 200 peices of brass for the gun, probably more. Your going to be experimenting with a few mould sizes, and they dont come cheap.

Now to adresse a few things in your post that show some warning signs
I would like to know if there is any place in Canada where I can purchase brass
Click to expand...
How bad is the recoil?
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What gear do I need to buy besides a lead furnace and bullet molds?
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Pretty clear this is your first "big" single shot, and because of that you really, REALLY, should consider getting one in 45-70 because thats the most most men can shoot prone without a sissy pad. Your brass is cheap, there is well established and succesful load combinations worked out and available for nearly any one of the target bullet shapes and with a Shiloh you can load your shells with smokeless and get very close to any of the bigger black powder shells velocity wise. Getting smokeless to work in the bigger cases is possible, but its way easier with black. With the 45-70 its pretty simple to get very satisfactory accuracy with various different types of powder on a plain base bullet. Go ask the same thing on the Shiloh forum and they will tell you get the 45-70. Theres moulds made with reduced diameter driving bands that allow you to seat your bullets way out of the case for extra capacity and you can also paper patch.

The 45-100 recoil is not that bad, but its noticeable, a 45-90 with an actual heavyweightl target bullet is nearly identical, and the 45-90 brass seems to be easier to come across. If you must have a bigger shell, consider a 45-90 or shiloh calls it the 45-2.4 again theres lots of guys who have come up with excellent recipes for this shell, its very popular with the guys who shoot longer range. I agree with MoonCoon in you should try one out if you can, because shooting prone from cross sticks will feel much MUCH different then offhand shots with these guns. Have you shoot you're 300 or 340 Weatherby prone for a string of 20-50 shots? Probably not, but you likely will with the Sharps.

For gear, you start with the gun and work your way up. Buying cheap gear will bite you in the rear end later. For good sights your looking at 500 bucks easy for a good set and it goes up, way up from there. You need a subtantial one peice cleaning rod if your shooting black, something like the biggest Dewey or Tipton rod you can get ahold of. Wad punches if your loading for black powder, wad material (youl probably want to try underprimer, under powder and overpowder wads and theres more types out there). You need come way to compress the powder, eather a compression die, a drop tube, or if your a skinflint like me just use an RCBS 45-70 expanding die. You need some way to lube the bullets if you shoot grease groove, Im lazy so I use bullet lubesizer, but you can pan lube if you want. You need the lube itself, again Im cheap I use toilet bowl wax mixed with ATF for smokeless and Lard mixed with beeswax and vaseline for black powder. You'l need lead....................lots of it. If your shooting black powder your going to need a blow tube or lots and lots of patches.

These guns require a QUALITY bullet which can only come from a QUALITY mould, Lee does not make moulds suitable for this application in my opinion. The moulds get pricey once you start experimenting with different shapes, alloys and combinations. If you've never cast bullets before, you picked the hardest type of gun to learn to cast for.

Your about to go on a pretty big adventure in shooting and reloading, it should be enjoyable. Lots of guys buy guns for the larger shells and give up, get discouraged and sell the thing before they get the chance to get some accurate shooting out of it and thats the biggest shame of all. With a smaller shell you will get satisfactory results way quicker and not have a discouraging learning curve.

Besides if you still want the 45-100 you can always send it back to Shiloh and get it reamed out to the bigger case later, it doesn't cost much.
 
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My 13 lb 45-90 Sharps has all the recoil I want/need: some days I handle it better than others. I use a flat-nose 415 gr and a 490 pointy one and both can be shot accurately with 81 gr GOEX FFg. It took me over a year and a lot of fiddling to get the accurate loads I now have. You are about to undertake a serious test of character and I can only agree with the others that you should try before you buy because you will be laying out a lot of $$ for the gun and accessories. Furthermore, brass is about $1 each,and I'm not sure you can get it anywhere in Canada, except for the 45-70 which is quite common. There are USA export restrictions on rifle brass so getting it from TOTW, Starline or any other suppliers will not be easy either. If you buy a new Sharps, ask them to provide a couple of hundred new brass with the rifle. Good luck.
 
Hi Eaglesnester,
I assume you meant to say you are only interested in hearing from people that shoot Sharps replicas such as Shilo, Csharps and Pedersoli, etc? There will be a lot more replies I think if this is the case. It sounds like you may be asking for replies from only those shooting Shilo Sharps and the replies will be limited.

Rodney
 
I'd second the recommendation for a .45-70 as a first black powder cartridge rifle. If you are stuck on the 2.6" long case then you can likely order the brass from Jerry at Mystic Precision. I bought my .45-110 brass from him. You'll find that the recoil will likely be a bit more than you want to shoot for long strings. If you order a bull barreled rifle it'd tame the recoil down quite a bit, but the wait time is longer. I have a .45-110 in a 16lb Shiloh and it recoils soft enough to shoot all day long.

My .45-70's and smaller cartridges see more time at the range than my larger cartridge rifles.

You'll also want to start thinking about bullet casting too...

Chris.
 
yes correct I am only interested in hearing from sharps shooters, does not have to be the specific Shilo Sharps from Big Timber, Any sharps manufacture will do. Experience is experience I want to hear from everyone who has been bitten by the smoke pole big bore club. There is so much history locked up in these rifles and I want to learn it all. Are there any Sharps shooters around Prince George area that shoot at the PG range? As a senior I can join for a year for around 35 bucks or so. Have also heard that the 1000 meter range is now up and running
Cheers & Tighter Groups:
 
i have a 50/70 Pedersoli thats going to get a new home . i have 3 guns in 45/70 that i enjoy loading and shooting.as said get a 45/70 for first gun . easy to load for and find brass and lead . have fun shoot straight .
 
Get a pistol grip stock, they dont look as nice as the straight grip but it helps alot for controlling recoil. Get at least the AA finish on the gun and be aware that shilohs standard barrel finish is a very dull, non shiny black, it looks like its been mildly sandblasted.
 
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My gun is the 45-70 long range Pedersolli, I have only shot about 120 rounds through it since I got it a couple of months ago. Started with 405 grain, now 500 grain lead bullets. I only shoot smokeless so far and off the bench the recoil is very tame with 28 to 29 grains of IMR 4198, this is well under the max load suggested on the reloading site.
I hate hard recoiling rifles so this is perfect for me. When I was researching my purchase I read somewhere that the 45-70 was more accurate or easier to get an accurate load developed than the larger 45-90, 45-110 etc. since I am also lazy this made the choice easier! To put it in perspective my 45-70 doesn't have any more recoil than my 308 off the bench so if you like the magnums you have right now you will likely be OK with the bigger calibers like the 45-110 etc. I'll bet it would suck shooting it off the bench though!!


Rodney
 
Hi there. The 45/100 is a great caliber for long range 1000 yard shooting or big game hunting. If you intend to primarily shoot BP silowette then you don't "need" a 45/100 but the big ones sure are a lot of fun. What ever you decide to shoot you'll need at least a 500 grain bullet up to a 650 grain depending on your twist rate. You'll have trouble getting 100 grains of powder in the cases unless your rifle is throated and you're using a bore riding bullet design. I find 90 to 95 grains of FFG works well for long range with a 600 grain bullet in a 1 in 16 twist BBL. Most 45's from the factory will be 1 in 18 twist which is fine. I shoot my 45/100 more at 300 mtrs. only because it's hard to get acess to the military ranges all the time. It's a lot of fun shooting metal gongs at 300 meters. I also have a C. Sharps 1875 in 50/140/3.25 caliber which I cast a 790 to 800 grain custom bore riding bullet in front of 130 grains of FG powder that I have shot at various long range matches. In most matches you will be shooting three ranges ie; 800; 900; 1000 yards. Generaly it's 5 sighters and 10 for score so you may shoot 12 to 20 rounds per range. Thats a lot of shooting with a big gun prone. Bring some Tylenol and don't be a sissy! I have 45/70's; 45/100's and 45/120's. When you get up to 90+ grains of powder and a 500 + grain bullet, you will start to notice some recoil. It's really not that bad once you get used to it. A little tip if your going to use vernier sights; don't crowd them or they will bite you. You will not like that a may pick up a flinch. Bad news if you do. It gets real hard to pull the trigger after that. Most competitors in the long range black powder matches are shooting 45/100's or over stuffed 45/70's. If you want to go long range than the 45/100 is the ticket in my humble opinion. The main thing is to produce as much smoke as posssible and have "FUN".............
 
Howdy folks,
Thanks Ruger22 for the plug.
Actually we have 45 BASIC brass in stock. It is listed on our web page here http://www.rustywood.ca/starline.html See bottom of page.

I have a C. SHARPS in 45-110 and use the 405gr RNFP cast bullet over 37gr of XMP-5744 powder. (Note: We also carry the XMP-5744 powder in stock http://www.rustywood.ca/powder.html) This load does not kick in those heavy single shots and so much fun to shoot.
Cheers, Peter
 
Watched one weight lifter fella with his Sharps 45-90 at a rifle match in Southern Saskatchewan. We all suspect he was loading that rifle right to the gunnels. His powder load was unknown to me. That 30 inch barrelled rifle you could physically see it trying to torque itself right out of his grasp everytime he touched one off. His final score was not as good as most of the 45-70 shooters. For all I know he could have been loading it with 777.
 
I've got a Shiloh 45-70 with a heavy round barrel. For long strings, it's all the recoil I can handle with 500+ gr bullets.

I don't know anyone who has a 45-110 or 45-120 who doesn't regret buying it. One guy tried to sell me his and I asked him why he bought it. Answer: "Seemed like a good idea at the time." Yeah, for a few shots hunting, not longer strings. Detached retinas are not high on anyone's list of 'must haves'.

Another pal agreed to develop a load for someone's 45-100. He did, but it developed a real flinch in him he had to work hard to lose. The gun had a too slim barrel for the calibre. He was wearing his heavy PAST 'sissy pad' and had a 25 lb bag of shot over the barrel as he shot from the bench. He asked me to shoot 5 rds over his chrono for record.
I asked him why he didn't do it and he said he didn't want to cry in front of another man!

Mike Venturino reported the same experience in his book on shooting buffler rifles. He acquired an original Sharps 45-100 that weighed just 10 lbs, the old NRA allowed weight in the era. He had it rebarreled to 40-70 straight.
 
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I've got two .45-110's and I definitely don't regret buying them. But I do use my smaller cartridges more. The only Sharps that I probably shouldn't have bought was a .50-140 that is still at the gunsmith waiting to be reborn as a .45-90 :). That's way too much of a good thing.

To the original poster: if you decide to go with the .45-100 then get a heavy barrel. I wouldn't go lighter than a 32" heavy barrel. Also you might want to consider that if you go with a .45-70, there are ways to use a lot more than 70gr of powder if you feel that you need to. I have a custom bullet than I can load 85gr of Goex FFg Express under.

Chris.
 
For a mould you will do well to start here.
http://www.boomersmoulds.com/

He has many years of BPCR experence, and a good guy too.
And he won a state championship last spring.
And won some of the BPCR shoots I attended in 2012.
I use one of his moulds, 550g, and 65g Goex ff with my Shiloh Sharps sporter # 1, in 45 70 of course.

Have you checked out here?
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forum.php

You have also been told about the book by Venterino...
http://www.amazon.com/Shooting-Buffalo-Rifles-Old-West/dp/B000H7NBAM
I highly recomend this addition to your library...
 
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