I Found a Winchester 1893 !

Fred24

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Hi folks, I just found a Winchester 1893 shotgun. It's really rough but seems to be in solid mechanical condition. It's dated 1896. Serial # : 31 ### (B with a star) on top.


I know there's only been 34 000 produced before it evolved to the 1897 Model.

I know it's only made for black powder, I'm safe lol.


(I DON'T INTEND TO SHOOT THIS SHOTGUN)

Any thoughts, things I should know ? A ballpark value ?




Thanks guys,
 
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Hi folks, I just found a Winchester 1893 shotgun. It's really rough but seems to be in solid mechanical condition. It's dated 1896. Serial # : 31 ### (B with a star) on top.


I know there's only been 34 000 produced before it evolved to the 1897 Model.

I know it's only made for black powder, I'm safe lol.



Any thoughts, things I should know ? A ballpark value ?




Thanks guys,

Yeah, you should know the barrels are not made for the pressure levels of modern ammunition. You should also know that recoil from standard modern ammo on that 120 plus year old wood will likely crack it, if not already done. You should also know that modern "target" loads are not low pressure. For some reason people keep thinking that. So before you start firing away, you probably want to get the barrel carefully checked out for pitting, which reduces the barrel wall thickness creating a weak spot (if you aren't competent to do that), and you should get some suitable, lower pressure and softer recoil ammunition, more in keeping with what was used in 1896. You should probably also pull the stock and inspect the head of the stock for oil saturation and cracks. Both problems substantially weaken the stock. If either, or both, come back and ask what to do.
 
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IIRC, according to the Madis book, Winchester recognized the flaws in the '93 and offered to replace them with a '97. Besides the already stated flaws, it lacked the 'hesitation lock' of the later '97 M12 and could fire out of battery.

They are not allowed in SASS competitions.
 
So you're saying that no collectors are looking for them ? It would be a shame being the predecessor of the model 1897 and being really scarce these days knowing that most of them were destroyed when the 1897 came around. Is anyone of you collecting model 1897s ?
 
If it is a Winchester it has collector value. Being rare it would be worth as much as a model 1897 in the same condition to a non-shooting collector.
 
Alright ! Thanks for the infos. I really thought I had a gold mine in hand. lol Paid 250 for it so no great loss.
 
So you're saying that no collectors are looking for them ? It would be a shame being the predecessor of the model 1897 and being really scarce these days knowing that most of them were destroyed when the 1897 came around. Is anyone of you collecting model 1897s ?

LOTS of folks collect 1897s (or have or want one in their collections). Myself, I have half a dozen of them in my collection. All of them are in very good mechanical condition. If they aren't when I acquire them, I recondition them myself (Mechanically only. Cosmetically, I leave them in their natural state - primarily because, unlike collectors of fine English guns who want their collections in like-new condition, collectors of American classics want theirs to show all the provenance that they came by honestly. See below for possible reasons for the difference.*) I'm particularly proud to be custodian of a (verified genuine) trench model.

* IMO, the difference between collectors of vintage English and American pieces evolved from the distinct differences in the markets in those countries during the period. In England, only nobility and the elite had access to hunting lands and the financial resources to afford the high quality hand-made guns produced by the craftsmen of the London and Birmingham makers. It was common practice at the time to send one's guns back to the maker at the end of each season to have them inspected and restored to original condition.

In the United States and Canada, by contrast, a larger portion of the market was supplied with mass produced models that were affordable for homesteaders, hunters, and adventurers. These purchasers couldn't afford annual "checkups", used their guns year 'round, and were often too remote to be sending their guns back to the makers. As a consequence, their expectations were vastly different. They expected guns that would take years of use and abuse and continue to function. They appreciated brilliant designs (such as John Browning's 1897) that could be user-adjusted if they began to shoot loose.
 
Alright ! Thanks for the infos. I really thought I had a gold mine in hand. lol Paid 250 for it so no great loss.

Not in the condition you describe. Rare no, rare in excellent condition yes. Those can be worth some good money state side but a hard sell in canada
Don't fire any modern ammo out of it. Has a rolled steel barrel not the same as damascus . It is more than likely 2 5/8 chamber for black powder some late ones were ok for smokeless just before the 1897 but very few
Cheers
 
LOTS of folks collect 1897s (or have or want one in their collections). Myself, I have half a dozen of them in my collection. All of them are in very good mechanical condition. If they aren't when I acquire them, I recondition them myself (Mechanically only. Cosmetically, I leave them in their natural state - primarily because, unlike collectors of fine English guns who want their collections in like-new condition, collectors of American classics want theirs to show all the provenance that they came by honestly. See below for possible reasons for the difference.*) I'm particularly proud to be custodian of a (verified genuine) trench model.

* IMO, the difference between collectors of vintage English and American pieces evolved from the distinct differences in the markets in those countries during the period. In England, only nobility and the elite had access to hunting lands and the financial resources to afford the high quality hand-made guns produced by the craftsmen of the London and Birmingham makers. It was common practice at the time to send one's guns back to the maker at the end of each season to have them inspected and restored to original condition.

In the United States and Canada, by contrast, a larger portion of the market was supplied with mass produced models that were affordable for homesteaders, hunters, and adventurers. These purchasers couldn't afford annual "checkups", used their guns year 'round, and were often too remote to be sending their guns back to the makers. As a consequence, their expectations were vastly different. They expected guns that would take years of use and abuse and continue to function. They appreciated brilliant designs (such as John Browning's 1897) that could be user-adjusted if they began to shoot loose.


Hey great analogy and comment. I appreciate ! It's so true. My 1893 is so beat up but amazingly the wood is not cracked... Even the forend.. Not a single crack.
 
Interesting had to look it up, I've owned a few 97's but never heard of a 93.
I had to look it up.
 
You get access to the EE and put a wanted to buy ad there.
Thanks for the information.. I have been looking into it but it says I got to have a number of actions on the website to have acwhere i am a new member so messaging old threads is helping me get closer to being able to make a post🙂
 
Yeah, you should know the barrels are not made for the pressure levels of modern ammunition. You should also know that recoil from standard modern ammo on that 120 plus year old wood will likely crack it, if not already done. You should also know that modern "target" loads are not low pressure. For some reason people keep thinking that. So before you start firing away, you probably want to get the barrel carefully checked out for pitting, which reduces the barrel wall thickness creating a weak spot (if you aren't competent to do that), and you should get some suitable, lower pressure and softer recoil ammunition, more in keeping with what was used in 1896. You should probably also pull the stock and inspect the head of the stock for oil saturation and cracks. Both problems substantially weaken the stock. If either, or both, come back and ask what to do.
All good points. Also if you do shoot the gun with ammo made for old guns or handloaded I would shoot 2 1/2 inch shells. Quite sure early guns were all short chambered. Even new model 12 Winchester when introduced had 2 5/8 inch chambers in 12 gauge.
 
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