I have an interest in the Chinese Hanyang 88 rifle.

rci2950

rci2950

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I have taken an interest in Chinese military firearms. Especially this one I am wondering if people have any experience with these. Are they around? are the En block clips around? I would imagine they are the same as the GEW 88 clips... Are they rare and collectable so the price is inflated beyond actual value? I would like to find one to enjoy and shoot. Not to collect. Is this possible in this day and age?

Chinese-Hanyang-88-left-side.jpg


Chinese-Hanyang-88-top-down.jpg


Chinese-Mauser-Hanyang-Type-88-POV-trimmed.jpg
 
Never seen one in Canada. Looked for one to import, they're not terribly expensive in the US but most are in very poor condition. To be honest even if I had one I wouldn't shoot it - I'm not one to buy too much into talk of guns blowing up but they are NOT made to western (or Norinco for that matter) standards. I have a Chiang Kai Shek Mauser and the receiver has actually started to deform from the impact of the bolt handle, which should give you an idea of the metallurgy and wear on it, and Hanyangs are even older. This is coming from a guy that regularly shoots Eibar revolvers. If I were you I'd just get a Gew 88 and shoot that instead - I would absolutely own one as a collector though, tons of history to them!
 
Well this is the sort of input I was looking for. Thank you. I will probably just do that.
 
Keep in mind both the Gewehr 88 and the Hanyang 88 rifles aren't really safe to shoot with factory ammo and must be shot with carefully made reloads.

The metal as mentioned isn't the best, and the proofing of the rifles was even worse (in the Gewehr 88s case, the proofing consisted of selecting a couple rifles every batch and firing 5rds of service ammo through it, not even proof ammo!). Many of these rifles blew up in service, and due to the lack of understanding on how to do rifling can result in some serious damage to the shooter. The issue was so bad these rifles got nicknamed the Jewfinite, aka the Jew's rifle as without a clear explanation as to why the rifles were blowing up some were blaming it on the Jews.

Many Hanyang 88 rifles that exist are worn to say the least. Definitely something I wouldn't want to put my face behind.

The rifle which looks most like what you are looking for would be a Turkish M88/05/35 which is actually the most likely rifle to be safe to shoot (still recommended to do carefully made reloads). Do a ton of research, slug your bore and keep the pressures low.
 
Well. I guess I should just look at a different option then. Im not interested in having a rifle blow up in my face. Thanks again. I would rather be told this here then get hurt later. I really appreciate it.
 
I think what I will do. I will look for wall hangars. My LGS does deactivations VERY well. Maybe I can find one that is FUBAR, then have it deactivated to hang on my wall and just look at.
 
The 'S' marking does not mean the bore is .323. Slug your bore as all it means is the chamber was reamed slightly at the neck to accommodate the Patrone 'S' ammo (and that was only if it wasn't rebarreled at some point in the last 130 years).. Normal 8mm Mauser of any sort I would consider to strong for these rifles and is highly not recommended. It's your life don't risk it over shooting some factory ammo.
 
Infanteriegewehr 88 or Gewehr 1888 and Ammunition

I have made a summation of some of the markings and ammunition as it applies to the Gew 88.

The Germans copied the rifling of the 1886 Lebel rifle in their hurry to get a smokeless powder rifle into production. A bore diameter 7.9mm (0.311”) was adopted and with a grove depth of 0.10mm (0.003937”) and rifling width of 4.5mm (0.177”), with 4 groves with a right twist.

The original 88 bullet had a weight of 14.7 grams (226.9 grains) and a diameter of 8.1mm (0.319”).

The bullet jacket and rifling combination resulted in 50% of the rifles returned in 1897 needing new barrels.

After testing it was found that increasing the grove depth from 0.10mm (0.003937”) to a grove depth of 0.15mm (0.0059”), for a total grove diameter of 8.2mm (0.3228” or 0.323”) solved the barrel problem.

The new grove depth was adopted in July 7, 1896 by a Prussian “All-Highest Decree” N0. 10 345.

All new and converted rifles with the 0.15mm depth groves were stamped with a “Z”.

“S ammunition” adopted by order of 4/3/1903, No. 251.03. The “S” bullet had a diameter of 8.22mm (0.3236”). The larger bullet needed the chamber to be modified as the 1888 case was still used.

The rifles with the modified chambered rifles for the “S” cartridge were marked with an “S”.

The War Ministry ordered that only 1888 rifles with new unused barrels be adapted for the “S” cartridge.

The early production 1898 Mausers were also stamped with a 2.5mm “S” on the head of the breech and on the barrel when converted to the “S” cartridge.

Original 1888 Barrel = ((0.1mm)+(7.9mm)+(0.1mm)) = 8.1mm = 0.3188976” or ~ 0.319”

Barrels after July, 7 1896 = ((0.15mm)+(7.9mm)+(0.15mm)) = 8.2mm = 0.3228346” or ~ 0.323”

“S” bullet diameter = 8.22mm = 0.323622” or ~ 0.324”

“S” bullet diameter minus bore diameter = 8.22mm – 8.2mm = 0.02mm = 0.0007874”

MARKINGS

2mm diameter dot = Modified barrel contours, post 1891.

Z 3mm high = Deepened rifling groves, post 1896. A large 7mm “Z” may also be stamped on the right side of the butt.

S 3mm high = Rifles suitable altered for S-Munition. 1903-5. An additional 7mm crowned “S” may be found on the right side of the butt.

n 2mm high = Signifies an 88/14 conversion, 1914-15.

Unit marking are generally located on the left side of the barrel band, and occasionally on the top service of the butt plate. For example ( 132.R.5.116 )


Cartridge examples.

Cartridge Powder Gas Pressure Velocity Powder Type

88 = 2.67 g Gew.Bl.P. (1890-91) = 3350 atm. = 610 m/s = Ethyl acetate till 1899.

88 = 2.63 g Powder 436 (1898) = 2700 atm. = 620 m/s = Ethyl alcohol powder.

98 = 3.2 g S 682b (1903) = 3100 atm. = 870 m/s = Ethyl alcohol w/diphenylamine. (Original “S” cartridge with the original 9.8 gram bullet)

610 m/s = 2001 ft/sec
620 m/s = 2034 ft/sec
870 m/s = 2854 ft/sec

One atmosphere = 101.325 kPa = 14.70 pounds per square inch
3100 atm = 45,557 pounds per square inch


“S” and “sS” cartridges.

Cartridge Charge Bullet form Bullet weight Velocity (Vo)

“S” = 98 = 3.2 g = short concave arched base = 10.2 grams = 895 m/s = 2936 ft/sec
“sS” = 98 = 2.85 grams = long torpedo shape = 12.8 grams = 785 m/s = 2575 ft/sec
Barrel lengths, 740mm = 29.13”

The “sS’ cartridge was adopted in 1918 as a long range machine gun cartridge and was the standard issue cartridge of WW2.


Rifles 88/05 and 88/14

The basic modifications’ for the rifles designated 88/05 and 88/14 were to use the 98 charger leading method instead of the original 88 Mannlicher clip that goes into and forms part of the magazine. Charger guides were added and the magazine was modified for charger loading. The rear sight was also modified for the ballistics of the “S” cartridge.

The Carbine 88 and the Rifle 91 were similarly modified. The Rifle 91 is the Carbine 88 with a stacking hook added, similar to the Carbine 98 AZs stacking hook.

The Yugoslavians’ modified 1895 Mannlicher straight pull rifles from 8x50Rmm to 8x57mm.
The 1890 Mannlicher straight pull was also modified from 8x50Rmm to 8x57mm, I believe by the Greeks.

Oil cleaning was introduced in October 1897, water had been used prior to that.

One inch = 1” = 25.4 mm
One foot = 1’ = 0.3048 m, Both from Canadian Metric Practice Guide CAN3-Z234.1-76

All dimensions in both books are in metric.

The preceding information was from “German Military Rifles and Machine Pistols 1871 – 1945”,
By Hans Dieter Gotz. Translated by Dr. Edward Force, CCSU. Includes information on assault rifles and Sten copies.

And “The German Rifle, A comprehensive illustrated history of the standard bolt-action designs,
1871-1945”. By John Walter. Includes information on the use of captured French Chassepots
He quotes from Gotz.
 
I don't trust that information as it has inaccurate bore diameters. For example my 1890 1888/05 rifle has a .3215 bore. It does not have a .323 bore diameter which that inaccurate information claims it would have as it has the 'S' marking. The reality is the 'S' marking simply means they modified the chamber and did nothing to the bores. The larger bore the War Ministry is referring to is the .3215 bores it adopted shortly after the Gewehr 88 was adopted (original bore was a .318-.319 diameter bore).

This also doesn't include the Czech barreled rifles which have a bore diameter of .316 and could have been replaced on any rifle! The reality is you cannot rely on any markings on this rifle for a accurate reading of the bore and you must slug it yourself. Gewehr 88s are likely one of the most dangerous military surplus rifles to shoot just because there is so many variables which can be dangerous, plus the weak action isn't very forgiving.
 
I would think that there has been more nonsense written about the Gewehr 1888 and it's ammunition that any other military rifle.

The reference material the Authors use is extensive.

The other rifle that a lot of nonsense is written about is the 1910 Ross.

The information provided is in regards to issue weapons.
 
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