I think I am developing an awful flinch!

perrypan

perrypan

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Went to the range and shoot my Stevens 200 in 30-06 yesterday. I shoot with a bench and front shooting bag at 100 yards as usual. The first 2 shots were ok but shots after that went worse and worse. After 10 rounds, I felt very dissapointed, and I tried couple more shots. And I got like 6" group! They are totally off! This is terrible. Ok, I admit that 30-06 is heavy for me. But everybody else over the forums can make a sub MOA, why can't I do it? Frustrated! I have tightened the scope and I did have a tight group (< 2") last weekend. Therefore I concluded it is me, not the gun. After googling a bit, I think what happened is that I developed an awful flinch. So far, I come out with a few ways to cure it:

1. Get a snap cap and practice shooting by dry fire.
2. Pull the trigger very very slowly
3. Add some weight to the stock and replace the god damn recoil pad (hard like a brick).
4. Purchase a set of nice front & rear shooting bag. (Shooting rest in the range makes one look stupid?)
5. Try 150g ammo for less recoil (I am using 180g currently)
6. Dump a lot of money on ammo and practice!
7. Get a small bore centerfire and learn to fight with recoil. (In 223 or 270? The only other guns I have are rimfires, which do not have recoil at all.)

What do you guys think? Any suggestions would be appreciated, thanks!

Perry
 
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Go back with a .22 and practice. You can/should replace the recoil pad on your .30-06 and also try a PAST shoulder pad. But start with the .22!

BTW - for most BC hunting you don't reall need a .30-06; if you are recoil shy try a .25-06. It has a fraction of the recoil and with good bullets is fine on even Moose and Elk.
 
Load a bunch of dummy rounds. Have a buddy load the magazine randomly with a mix of dummy loads and real rounds. Then you shoot groups. Sometimes click, sometimes BOOM. Very effective training method.
 
1899 said:
Go back with a .22 and practice. You can/should replace the recoil pad on your .30-06 and also try a PAST shoulder pad. But start with the .22!
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The problem is I moved up to 30-06 from rimfires. I have used rimfire for quite a while and got a pretty decent result...I don't want to stick with .22 forever. :(
 
The problem MIGHT be that you're anticipating the bang and acting accordingly. Don't do that. Keep both eyes open, keep the crosshairs on-target, and ensure that your trigger squeeze is a slow, consistent motion to the rear.

Don't try to make the gun go off "now." In fact, let it surprise you. You will flinch if you anticipate.
 
^
Exactly what he said. If you don't load yourself then use snap caps loaded randomly by a buddy. This tells you that you are flinching or not. Then practice with a 22. When I started shooting handguns I wouldfire 5 rounds through my 22 then pick up the 9mm and fire 2 shots and repeat this for hours. It helps stop the flinch as you are used to the 22 so much. Hope you get better.
 
EightSeven said:
The problem MIGHT be that you're anticipating the bang and acting accordingly. Don't do that. Keep both eyes open, keep the crosshairs on-target, and ensure that your trigger squeeze is a slow, consistent motion to the rear.

Don't try to make the gun go off "now." In fact, let it surprise you. You will flinch if you anticipate.
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That;s my problem :(
 
For example:

Recoil in a Stevens 200, with scope ~7 lbs

.30-06 with 180gr at 2750 fps - 23.14 lbs
.30-06 with 150gr at 2900 fps - 19.90 lbs
.25-06 with 100gr at 3300 fps - 12.91 lbs
.25-06 with 120gr at 3050 fps - 14.30 lbs

The 150 gr .30-06 still has almost 40% more recoil than the .25-06 with the 120 gr bullet. That is a huge difference. You will actually enjoy shooting, that will greatly increase your confidence and you will be more likely to make clean, killing shots. I am certain you won't be dissapointed.

I've posted this before, but here it is again. This bull was taken with a .257 Roberts and 100gr Barnes TSX:

tracyburton.jpg



Edit - Try the .22 again, you may flinch now that you have a flinch. The .22 will let you work on your technique. Again, I can't stress this enough, you don't need a .30-06 for most hunting.
 
don't forget breathing. I started to develop a flinch....to combat it I took up some breathing exercises just before I pull the trigger and a New recoil pad and a shoulder pad would also help. The 30-06 is a solid round 100 plus years can't lie and it will take down anything with the right placement. Though I have the a .308 Win

Good luck and have fun.
 
One thought no one has touched on yet is too many rounds in such a short time. I'm not saying you do or don't have a flinch, just that many rounds through a light weight sporter barrel (was it a short time frame??) quickly could open up your groups.

I'd also take sub moa groups with a grain of salt. What can be done off a front rest/bag combination relaxed off a bench is in my mind a bit different than a time pressured field position shot.
 
1) Internet sub-MOA groups are worth exactly the same as everything else you see on the internet. Take it all with a grain of salt and don't get too wrapped up in expecting perfection from your rifle. Sub 2" groups are fine for hunting at reasonable distances.

2) Pull out the .22 and practice your breathing, trigger control and not anticipating the shot until your flinch goes away. Then slowly work back into the 200. I would even suggest shooting one 3 shot group with the 200, then shooting a couple of groups with your .22, then back to the 200 and so on to reinforce your good habits.

3) Put a Limbsaver or Decelerator recoil pad on the 200, they are a huge improvement and make bench shooting tolerable.

4) Saskgunowner101 is correct, some of your group opening up may be due to the barrel heating up. Take your time, shoot a round every minute or two and let the gun cool between groups.

I just test fired a BSA in 6.5x55 with a medium weight barrel last weekend. Once sighted, my first 3 shot group with one brand of ammo was just over 3/8" at 100yds (by far the best group I have ever shot), the next group was a bit over an inch because I didn't let it cool down enough. Another group shot at 200yds immediately following the 1"+ group was a bit over 3". That rifle likes a cold barrel and does not perform as well when warm. Yours may well be the same.

Mark
 
perrypan said:
The problem is I moved up to 30-06 from rimfires. I have used rimfire for quite a while and got a pretty decent result...I don't want to stick with .22 forever. :(
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Find a buddy that can lend you his 223, try that for a few groups.

Use plugs and muffs for double hearing protection, some times the rifles report can cause a flinch,
shoot 150gr loads, Remington make a reduced recoil ammo, and get a shoulder pad and a limbsaver for the rifle.

If you are not comfortable behind a rifle you will never shoot it well. FS
 
I found I got a bit of a flinch when I started shooting Stevens rifles.

Heavy-ish caliber + light barrel/stock + hard recoil "pad" = flinch

Whenever I started flinching again, I went back to shooting a 30-30. Getting rid of a flinch I find just takes time and try and forget that you have a flinch. Mind over matter.
 
Is it a brand new rifle? My dad bought a 200 in 7mm-08 and it took a box and a half for it to settle in and start grouping well. It seems the inside of the bbl was blued and it took time to wear it down. Maybe get a buddy that you know is a good shot to give it a whirl. Don't blame yourself yet it could be the rifle. And then practice practice practice. Don't be afraid to shoot a few boxes of ammo at different ranges to build up your confidence and get you used to your rifle. Best of luck. And remember a 6" group is all you need to cleanly take down big game. Of course smaller is better but that is acceptable.
 
Hey some great stuff on here as usual. I would suggest you go back to the rim fire for a bit to practice a few things,

1) your aim should be natural, don't fight it
2) breath, slow in slow out, watch the sight go up as you breath in, down as you exhale,
3) use the pad of your finger, take up the trigger slack and squuueeeeeeezzzzeeee it, the shot should come as a surprise, try do this as you exhale,
4) and this is a huge grouping killer, once the shot has surprised you, continue to keep the trigger squeezed for a 3 count, this will stop you from snapping the trigger and throwing the shot.

Go with what the other guys have said about getting someone else to load for you so you don't know what you are getting. A more basic method taught in the military is to put a dime on the barrel by the muzzle and practice dry firing, that will tell you just how bad you are jerking.

Good luck man

Koz

Personaly I hate firing any of my .30 cals from the prone, it kills my shoulder so I feel your pain.
 
Stolen from another site.

How to get rid of The Flinch

There is only one way to get rid of The Flinch. You must convince your brain, through training, that shooting does not hurt. This is easily accomplished by dry firing the rifle while paying minute attention to the sights to watch for movement as the shot breaks. Always wear hearing protection, even when dry firing. You can dry fire practice on your own as it is a bit embarrassing to be seen jumping about when the rifle only goes click at the shot. As soon as you can do ten consecutive dry fires with a rock steady sight picture, get your helper to load ........ or not load........ the rifle. If you get caught out, go back to dry firing until you can do ten in a row, rock steady. Keep repeating the process until you are immune from The Flinch.

Sometimes immunity does not happen and, if you retest yourself periodically, The Flinch has returned. It is usually as a result of your brain calling you a liar because of the nosebleed and busted knuckles every time you fire the loaded rifle. The brain also says: "You can't fool me. The last time you did this, I could not hear for an hour." Jokes aside, it may not be quite so severe an action. Even a light or medium caliber rifle can pinch a cheek bone or aggravate an old injury. With small framed shooters, it is vital that the rifle fits properly. Sometimes the discomfort threshold is just not there and unfortunately all rifles are noisy and that remains the biggest culprit.
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