Identify this 6.5 Swede

kodiakjack

kodiakjack

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
17   0   0
Location
WMU 90
Hey fellas.

An old friend of mine just got this rifle as payment for a job. He (or the giver) doesn't know anything about it, and he's wondering if he made out like a begger or a bandit.

On the phone he called it a 1943 42 swede. I'm guessing based on the pics it's an AG42 B, but that's about all I can guess.

Any ideas about it? How can he confirm the year? What's a ball park value?

Any info is appreciated!!

Hopefully he'll get some help and realize how useful this whole "internet" fad is, and join the forum himself.



















Sorry for the pic quality. Maybe the guns worth enough that he can sell it and buy a camera?
 
That appears, even blurry, to be in pretty decent shape, and yes, it's an AG42b. Nice to have the bayo as well.

Very soon, others will chime in with a ballpark figure. It will likely be a bit higher than one would think. They're an excellent rifle, and to my way of thinking, superiour to most other semis of the era.
 
Value without bayonet, for condition shown, is around $450.00-$500.00 give or take. Not sure what the bayo is worth. The year will be on the left side of the receiver. Value could maybe drop if it doesn't have matching numbers or the stock disc shows a poor barrel.
 
IMHO, the rifle including the bayo is worth around $325. No more. Someone has sanded the hell out of the stock. Look at the rounded finger grooves. The edges should be sharp and the original color of the wood should be dark brown.

The date should be stamped on the left side of the receiver.
 
bearhunter said:
IMHO, the rifle including the bayo is worth around $325. No more. Someone has sanded the hell out of the stock. Look at the rounded finger grooves. The edges should be sharp and the original color of the wood should be dark brown.
Click to expand...
I'd take a crate at that price with Bayo's!
It seems from my short time in the hobby that a lot of people want a "nice" piece. So it may have had a bit of spiffing up, so what. Who's to say what is original patina and use?
 
As mentioned, hard to tell from those pics if it's been sanded. You look at the stock disc and the disc sure doesn't appear to be proud of the wood. If anything, it looks below the wood. The color is not far off from one that I have. Also, the camera can make color appear quite a bit different from what it actually is. We need some better pics.
 
I would calmly pay $325, walk slowly away, whistling, and as soon as I turned a corner and got out of sight, I would run like heck. :p

With the tide of younger people getting into shooting and collecting, guns like this one will bring a better price than it would have a few short years ago. The demise of the stupid, wasteful LGR Has been instrumental in bringing people into the fold. I helped a friend at the Calgary show this weekend, and couldn't help but notice all the young people looking at and buying guns. Lots of people of all ages buying, too. I offered a young fellow $350 for a Swede like the one above, no bayonet, plus it had been sanded. He told me he paid $500 for it.

The"good old days" are over for these old milsurps. :)
 
Sixmaniac said:
I'd take a crate at that price with Bayo's!
It seems from my short time in the hobby that a lot of people want a "nice" piece. So it may have had a bit of spiffing up, so what. Who's to say what is original patina and use?[/QUOTE

Really???? Did you go to the two day gun show in Chilliwack on the first weekend in March??? You could have had your crate of bubba refinishes with bayos cheaper than that. There were a couple of Ag42B rifles that had been left alone and they were priced around $400 or less with bayo, depending on condition.

That rifle has had the stock sanded down and whoever did it, did a poor job. The finger grooves have the edges sanded down and the finish on the stock is the wrong color. The metal may be and likely is just fine. One thing, I notice that a lot of these rifles have been used with corrosive primed ammo and their owners had no idea how to clean them up. Many have pitted bores because of this. As for the bayos/scabbards/frogs, depending on condition and style of frog $25 to $60 tops. I bought an M38 in Chilliwack with bayo/scabbard/frog. All matching numbers. At first I thought the unbelievable had happened and the bayo was matching as well. It was 3 numbers off. The last numbers on the rifle are 618 the numbers on the bayo are 615. Oh well, it was exciting for a few seconds. The combination was sold to me for $325. There were a lot of other Swede milsurps there that were in the same ballpark. The 38s and 96s were commanding better prices than the 42s in similar condition.
Click to expand...
 
gunsaholic said:
As mentioned, hard to tell from those pics if it's been sanded. You look at the stock disc and the disc sure doesn't appear to be proud of the wood. If anything, it looks below the wood. The color is not far off from one that I have. Also, the camera can make color appear quite a bit different from what it actually is. We need some better pics.
Click to expand...

You don't have to sand very much to remove the original finish. The hardest finish to remove is in the finger grips where it usually gets very dark. Those finger grooves are the same color as the rest of the rifle. That is not always the case mind you. If your rifle has just gone through and FTR and the stock has been replaced the grooves may not be dirty.
 
gunsaholic said:
As mentioned, hard to tell from those pics if it's been sanded. You look at the stock disc and the disc sure doesn't appear to be proud of the wood. If anything, it looks below the wood. The color is not far off from one that I have. Also, the camera can make color appear quite a bit different from what it actually is. We need some better pics.
Click to expand...

Sir, on Swedish military arms, of which this a good example, the wood is always originally proud of the metalwork. It is when the metal is flush with the wood that you can be certain that it has been sanded down and refinished. The natural state of the wood, ex-arsenal, was intentionally rough so that the arm could be firmly gripped in the cold. You can often see the marks of a coarse wood rasp, especially in the areas behind the trigger guard and the wrist. Also. the original finish is basic in the extreme - machine-made on a copier, topped and tailed to remove the unwanted bits, deliberately left pretty rough for the reason I mentioned, and then just dunked in oil for a day or so. That's it. And it's why it's so easy to restore to original - Red Green could make a good job of it with an outboard motor or chainsaw.

BTW, this 'oversize' was deliberate so that the Swedes could obtain the maximum 'life' out of the stock by refinishing it when needed a number of times before replacement was necessary.

Another point - I never knew that Swedish milsurp ammunition was corrosively-primed - that's new one on me.

tac
 
Last edited:
Well I thank you fellas.

I'll report back to the owner with your report thus far. I won't bother asking for better pics, as I'm sure we got the cream of the crop from the flip-phone/photographer combo we're working with.

My understanding so far, is that even though it's significantly more rare than something like a 98, it rareness leads to less-awareness leads to less desire leads to a lower price... Make sense?
 
bearhunter said:
Sixmaniac said:
I'd take a crate at that price with Bayo's!
It seems from my short time in the hobby that a lot of people want a "nice" piece. So it may have had a bit of spiffing up, so what. Who's to say what is original patina and use?[/QUOTE

Really???? Did you go to the two day gun show in Chilliwack on the first weekend in March??? You could have had your crate of bubba refinishes with bayos cheaper than that. There were a couple of Ag42B rifles that had been left alone and they were priced around $400 or less with bayo, depending on condition.

That rifle has had the stock sanded down and whoever did it, did a poor job. The finger grooves have the edges sanded down and the finish on the stock is the wrong color. The metal may be and likely is just fine. One thing, I notice that a lot of these rifles have been used with corrosive primed ammo and their owners had no idea how to clean them up. Many have pitted bores because of this. As for the bayos/scabbards/frogs, depending on condition and style of frog $25 to $60 tops. I bought an M38 in Chilliwack with bayo/scabbard/frog. All matching numbers. At first I thought the unbelievable had happened and the bayo was matching as well. It was 3 numbers off. The last numbers on the rifle are 618 the numbers on the bayo are 615. Oh well, it was exciting for a few seconds. The combination was sold to me for $325. There were a lot of other Swede milsurps there that were in the same ballpark. The 38s and 96s were commanding better prices than the 42s in similar condition.
Click to expand...

I would have thought a max of $500 with bayo, if the stock had not been "refinished" and if the metal, especially the bore, was at least VG. This is not that gun. There are several on the EE right now, priced from about $500 to the ridiculous.

The barriers to these being highly sought after, still seems to be the lack of cheap surplus ammo (which will never change), that it's a semi-auto (eating ammo even faster), that it's generally not considered "attractive", and having no real "battle record".
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
What to add? There is an awesome n' informative sticky on them.

I don't touch prices usually, but you would certainly see me on the lowest end of the [so far] suggested scale. The Bayo is a nice feature, but it's also the same as a '96 bayo, and they're not exactly rare.

What your friend does have is a nifty gem. Direct gas operated semi auto. Possibly the most accurate 'surpy semi out there. Recoil is almost nil, made up by noise n' the ability to make ejected brass every bit as lethal as the 6.5mm ball. The snappy action seems very hungry for thumbs, and be mindful of that. For collectible surplus, the Ljungmans don't get much attention. For the developmental step/engineering they represent as must have for any lead slinger.

They are trickier to love today, as the surplus ammo that should be slung from them is not abundant (more to pity, as the 6.5x55 was a very well developed cartridge). You'd want to use hand loaded ammo, but the brass gets chewed when ejected in unmodified gems. An easy solution is to modify the gas system for adjustability either by finding a longer screw with proper threads for the gas block, or tapping the gasblock to accommodate a longer screw in more common thread. I have used factory ammo with mixed success in the almost 30 years I've owned mine, but have had to replace an extractor, and suffered feeding issues with soft point ammo. (This was my first "deer gun", and although I got teased for lugging it around, I also got deer too). In recent years I've learned (likely here) that the Swedes used a very fast burning powder in their ammo, and modern factory ammo's slower burn means the gas system can run differently than intended.

Don't let your friend lose the magazine! Magazines were issued one per rifle with intention of loading them via charger/stripper. Finding a magazine isn't impossible, but certainly not easy, or cheap.

I love m' Ljungman and it's one of the few on the "n'er sell" list.
 
tacfoley said:
Sir, on Swedish military arms, of which this a good example, the wood is always originally proud of the metalwork. It is when the metal is flush with the wood that you can be certain that it has been sanded down and refinished.
Click to expand...

That's is what I was saying, that the stock disc appears to be below the wood like it should. But it's hard to tell from the pics. I guess in the end it's worth whatever someone will pay.
 
camster said:
What to add? There is an awesome n' informative sticky on them.

I don't touch prices usually, but you would certainly see me on the lowest end of the [so far] suggested scale. The Bayo is a nice feature, but it's also the same as a '96 bayo, and they're not exactly rare.

What your friend does have is a nifty gem. Direct gas operated semi auto. Possibly the most accurate 'surpy semi out there. Recoil is almost nil, made up by noise n' the ability to make ejected brass every bit as lethal as the 6.5mm ball. The snappy action seems very hungry for thumbs, and be mindful of that. For collectible surplus, the Ljungmans don't get much attention. For the developmental step/engineering they represent as must have for any lead slinger.

They are trickier to love today, as the surplus ammo that should be slung from them is not abundant (more to pity, as the 6.5x55 was a very well developed cartridge). You'd want to use hand loaded ammo, but the brass gets chewed when ejected in unmodified gems. An easy solution is to modify the gas system for adjustability either by finding a longer screw with proper threads for the gas block, or tapping the gasblock to accommodate a longer screw in more common thread. I have used factory ammo with mixed success in the almost 30 years I've owned mine, but have had to replace an extractor, and suffered feeding issues with soft point ammo. (This was my first "deer gun", and although I got teased for lugging it around, I also got deer too). In recent years I've learned (likely here) that the Swedes used a very fast burning powder in their ammo, and modern factory ammo's slower burn means the gas system can run differently than intended.

Don't let your friend lose the magazine! Magazines were issued one per rifle with intention of loading them via charger/stripper. Finding a magazine isn't impossible, but certainly not easy, or cheap.

I love m' Ljungman and it's one of the few on the "n'er sell" list.
Click to expand...

Thanks!
 
tacfoley said:
Sir, on Swedish military arms, of which this a good example, the wood is always originally proud of the metalwork. It is when the metal is flush with the wood that you can be certain that it has been sanded down and refinished. The natural state of the wood, ex-arsenal, was intentionally rough so that the arm could be firmly gripped in the cold. You can often see the marks of a coarse wood rasp, especially in the areas behind the trigger guard and the wrist. Also. the original finish is basic in the extreme - machine-made on a copier, topped and tailed to remove the unwanted bits, deliberately left pretty rough for the reason I mentioned, and then just dunked in oil for a day or so. That's it. And it's why it's so easy to restore to original - Red Green could make a good job of it with an outboard motor or chainsaw.

BTW, this 'oversize' was deliberate so that the Swedes could obtain the maximum 'life' out of the stock by refinishing it when needed a number of times before replacement was necessary.

Another point - I never knew that Swedish milsurp ammunition was corrosively-primed - that's new one on me.

tac
Click to expand...

I have a few thousand rounds of it on hand that is corrosive. It wasn't until the fifties if memory serves that the Swedes started producing non corrosive primed ammo.
 
gunsaholic said:
That's is what I was saying, that the stock disc appears to be below the wood like it should. But it's hard to tell from the pics. I guess in the end it's worth whatever someone will pay.
Click to expand...

The stock disc area is easily sanded without removing much wood. It is the finger groove area the tells the tale as well as the shiny finish. The finish is way to smooth.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom