Identifying Restored Enfields (and other milsurps).

[LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1]

The latest trend of restoring lee Enfields (among other milsurps) is a great add on to the Milsurp collecting hobby. Bringing sportered rifle back to their full glory is satisfying and creates a excellent shooter grade rifle.

However, this creates a little bit of a problem when it comes to buying and selling. Their is nothing wrong with restored sporters as they fill a certain niche and like I said, make great shooter grade rifles. Now, if both parties are aware of the restored status and the rifle is priced in accordance, their is no problem. The problems come form people who either don't know their rifle is restored (Honest mistake), or they are purposely attempting to pass a restored model as intact original (fraud).

So, I am going to start buying up milsurps again and would like to pick up a few more enfields to add to my collection of existing rifles. I imagine their are a lot more people who are entering the world of milsurp collecting. I know a little bit, but was wondering what indicators their might be that one should look for when buying an Enfield (or any milsurp for that matter).

Their is of course the concept of know your dealer. Their are a few people on here for example that I would not hesitate to deal with. But sometimes you see a rifle from a seller you don't know that looks interesting and might be a legit original rifle or a restored sporter. Gun shows are another place this info would come in handy.

So, any info people would have would be a great asset to the collecting community.

 

[southwest maddog]

I am presently looking for a WWI SMLE and have looked at many rifles. I have yet to see one that had all original parts.

The easiest things for me to spot are stocks that don't match or non-matching serial numbers on nose caps, bolts, barrels and mags. I will be watching this thread for tips.

Restored rifles seem to be going for $500+ in my experience.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Its hard to say sometimes (provided they did a good job restoring, or when your buying online). Some of it is looking at the historical precedence of the firearm. For example a mismatched bolt (or magazine) is a common thing as when they were sold off, often the bolts would just be mixed up into different rifles. A mismatched nose cap however is much more difficult to get switched up, and a more likely sign it is a restoration (but not a 100% indicator). Other things like the finish of the gun not being correct (heavily worn bluing, but a mint stock or different levels of finish on the metal parts, one barrel band being worn to the white, and the other being mint), or the wood having different wear patterns (the butt plate being beat to crap, and the forend being in mint shape).

There is no 100%, and unfortunately that means you need to know what to look for, which for many firearms means having experience (which is also the people not likely to be affected by this issue in the first place). Numbering systems, wear patterns, what is common for those firearms (things like stocks for example certain Mausers didn't have takedown discs, well others did etc.). Basically a sniff test, if it doesn't feel right, odds are it isn't. If one thing is out of place that might be ok (example being a replaced cocking nob on a Enfield to a later version), several, then you better look carefully. For me, I would be very confidant in identifying a restoration on certain rifles, others not so much.

 

[purple]

There's no quick and dirty checklist to sort this out. It gets back to knowing the history of the rifles that you are interested in. This involves an investment in the appropriate reference books and manuals which are available for most of the common MILSURPs, incl Lee Enfields.

Interchangeability of parts is a big feature of 20th century military rifles. Parts were made by many sources an sub-contractors. Parts of any make were used in military repair and rebuild processes and many bona fide military rifles can be found with a variety of parts from different makers.

It can be pretty tough to tell an original military rifle from a civvy restoration because of this, provided that all parts are military and that there are no obvious giveaways like a commercial reblue job or a drilled and tapped receiver.

It can be a real challenge to sort out some rifles, like M 1 Garands, M1 Carbines, M1903 Springfields and No4 Lee-Enfields which were overhauled one or more times over a period of years. Parkerizing is parkerizing and it can be very hard to distinguish between a repark done in a military overhaul facility in 1946 or 1962 and a proper DIY job done 3 months ago.

If the seller knows that a piece is a restoration he should disclose this, but from what I've seen over the years a lot of people just don't know enough to tell the difference between an original rifle, a military overhaul, a civvy restoration or a recovered sporter. It all gets back to knowing what to expect with a particular type of rifle and this means a lot of research and self-study. And always buy the gun and not necessarily the story that comes with it. There are some very creative marketers among us.