Identity help, possibly italian
- Thread starter mrclean89
- Start date
X2 Spanish Model 1916. Some were converted to shoot the 7.62CETME round. Be careful with that rifle. The chamber is identical to the 7.62x51 but the cartridges loaded for it had lower pressures an a 112grain FMJ bullet. With the right bullets, they are very accurate.
I won't tell you not to shoot 308Win out of it but I will caution you that the rifle was never designed for a constant diet of cartridges that generat around 60,000cup.
Handload to around 45,000cup and all will be well.
Lest I forget, there are also a few around in the 7x57 Mauser chambering.
I won't tell you not to shoot 308Win out of it but I will caution you that the rifle was never designed for a constant diet of cartridges that generat around 60,000cup.
Handload to around 45,000cup and all will be well.
Lest I forget, there are also a few around in the 7x57 Mauser chambering.
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
... and let the Spanish CETME bashing begin!
In my humble opinion as the owner and still living shooter of a Spanish FR8, there is a completely unsubstantiated body of Internet "knowledge" that says if the chamber dimensions of a Spanish rifle are 7.62x51 NATO shaped, the rifle is actually a 7.62x51 CETME. HORSE HOCKEY!
That is a specialized and insignificant cartridge. The Spaniards are members of NATO and aren't so stupid as to jeodardize their own troops with boobytraped ammunition.
FIRST CETME cartridge was that funny little thing based on the 7.92x33 with the aluminum nose out to the middle of next week. The original 7.62 CETME was quite low-powered and just an experimental round. The 7.62x51 (NATO) Bala Espanol was a low-pressure version of the NATO round which was used as the official Spanish military round for a number of years. It is actually a SENSIBLE loading for the NATO casing, running at pressures approximating the pressures for which these actions were DESIGNED.
I cannot find in either the Bible or the Koran or the Tripitaka exactly WHERE it is written that rifle ammunition MUST run at 60 thousand pounds pressure, especially when you are running it in actions designed and manufactured for FORTY thousand pounds or a little better.
If you're going to run it in older rifles, it only makes sense to drop the load a bit. That's why the boxes are marked "7.62mm Bala Espanol". Spain never did approve the high-pressure version of the 7.62 for general use, which is part of the reason that there are so many of these rifles around in decent condition.
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I cannot find in either the Bible or the Koran or the Tripitaka exactly WHERE it is written that rifle ammunition MUST run at 60 thousand pounds pressure, especially when you are running it in actions designed and manufactured for FORTY thousand pounds or a little better.
If you're going to run it in older rifles, it only makes sense to drop the load a bit. That's why the boxes are marked "7.62mm Bala Espanol". Spain never did approve the high-pressure version of the 7.62 for general use, which is part of the reason that there are so many of these rifles around in decent condition.
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Thanks smellie, mle, the FR8 is a 98 Mauser action. The 1916 model Mauser shown above, is a 93 Mauser action. Not nearly as strong as your rifle.
When NATO concerns were raised as to the Spanish CETME semi auto rifles that they couldn't operate without being damaged with standard NATO loads, the Spanish just used heavier springs to accomodate the NATO pressures. The US got several shipments of these fine rifles. Canada of course, because of their full auto capabilities didn't get any. We did get thousands of other Spanish offerings. Some of it was as new, like the sweet little carbines with the 18inch barrels that were converted to 7.62CETME, the 1916 shown above, FR7, FR8 as well as K98s in 8x57 and M91, M93 rifles in 7x57. A lot of them were FTRed and as new. Many were beat to death and barely considered fair.
The ops rifle is very nice but it is a weaker action and should be treated accordingly. To compare it to an FR8, is like comparing your 250cc ATV to my 650cc ATV. OOPS, that ATV comparison should be the other way around.
When NATO concerns were raised as to the Spanish CETME semi auto rifles that they couldn't operate without being damaged with standard NATO loads, the Spanish just used heavier springs to accomodate the NATO pressures. The US got several shipments of these fine rifles. Canada of course, because of their full auto capabilities didn't get any. We did get thousands of other Spanish offerings. Some of it was as new, like the sweet little carbines with the 18inch barrels that were converted to 7.62CETME, the 1916 shown above, FR7, FR8 as well as K98s in 8x57 and M91, M93 rifles in 7x57. A lot of them were FTRed and as new. Many were beat to death and barely considered fair.
The ops rifle is very nice but it is a weaker action and should be treated accordingly. To compare it to an FR8, is like comparing your 250cc ATV to my 650cc ATV. OOPS, that ATV comparison should be the other way around.
Fr7 --- fr8
I believe the FR7 and FR8 Spanish rifles are both chambered for the 7.62 X 51 NATO cartridge. The FR8 (98 action) has a three lug bolt and is suitable for the 7.62.
However I have read where the FR7 has a two lug bolt and is stressed near it's limit with the 7.62.
How true is this? I can't imagine Spanish troops being given a rifle (FR7) that might have problems.
Any comments?
B
I believe the FR7 and FR8 Spanish rifles are both chambered for the 7.62 X 51 NATO cartridge. The FR8 (98 action) has a three lug bolt and is suitable for the 7.62.
However I have read where the FR7 has a two lug bolt and is stressed near it's limit with the 7.62.
How true is this? I can't imagine Spanish troops being given a rifle (FR7) that might have problems.
Any comments?
B
FR 7&8 were for the Guardia Civil. The Fasces marking shown is theirs.
Deltasilver
Regular
- Location
- Right behind you...
As previously stated, there isn't any issue shooting 7.62x51 or .308 loaded to NATO spec. 40k to 60k is a hellofa pressure jump in a small ring rifle.
The CETME development story is quite interesting - the Spanish didn't just jump on the NATO bandwagon and the FR rifles are a part of that. Cool stuff.
I don;t think the issue is with the FR8, but more the FR7 build on a small-ring Mauser action.
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
And the way the FR7's were converted. Not rechambered, but the chamber reamed out and a .308 chambered insert silver soldered into the barrel. This left a weak spot ahead of the chamber insert. A long time ago someone posted pics of a blow up. The front end of the insert where it met the barrel was subject to gas erosion and the barrel let go at that point.
