Im a rookie and I need help

Kamikaze11

Kamikaze11

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Gatineau Qc
I reload 308 for 2 year in rem 700
Everything is perfect

I just bought a rem 783 in 308

And the same ammo who as been fully resize
Is really hard to close the bolt , and it even worst after the shot to open it , but I don’t have this issue in my 700
And with factory ammo it tight but not like with reload
Why ?
 
Kamikazell: Not every rifle chamber is exactly the same. Chamber dimensions can vary slightly, even among identical rifles. So much so that, a case sized to fit in one chamber, won't fit in another at all. This often occurs with reloaded ammunition. Especially when trying to switch from one rifle to another. Which is the problem you're having now.

To cure this problem, you will have to re-adjust your resizing die(and likely bullet seating die), each time you reload cartridges for your 783. This, so your brass is properly headspaced(of the right length from base to shoulder) to fit its chamber. Bullet seating depth may also need to be adjusted. You won't be able to use the same ammo, for both rifles. This means having a separate batch, for each.

Hope this helps

Al

ps: Some shooters will have separate sets of dies, set up for each rifle. In order to not have to be constantly re-adjusting dies, every time they reload.
 
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Kamikaze, Sell that 783 and use the cash to purchase components your 700 likes.

The 783 is a low end rifle, that doesn't mean it won't shoot well. Some are very good, most are average at best and 2 inch groups, with factory ammo are pretty much the norm.

Alex McKr gave you a very good description of the problem you have.

Your next choice is do you want to load for a close to identical rifle with cases that will both fit the 700 but only one will fit the 783?? What happens if you grab the wrong box before heading to the range or hunting?? Depending on which rifle you have, that box either won't fit or the ammo won't be accurate.
 
Switching to small base dies might also solve the problrm but you will likely lose some accuracy.

As stated, the chambers are both within the tolerance set for .308, but both are different
 
Do we know the headspace is actually correct on the 783? What do the cases look like, primer strike etc. Also have you made up a dummy round, candle it and see if the throat is maybe cut wrong, that could explain your problem, over pressure makes hard extraction as well. When cleaning do your jags push through with same approximate force between your different rifles.
 
Kamikaze11 said:
I just bought a rem 783 in 308

And the same ammo who as been fully resize
Is really hard to close the bolt , and it even worst after the shot to open it , but I don’t have this issue in my 700
And with factory ammo it tight but not like with reload
Why ?
Click to expand...

I'm going to guess that, like as has been said, all chambers vary somewhat. If you're getting a crush fit with factory ammo, to me that would suggest you have a chamber at the minimum end of factory acceptable size determined by a go-gauge.

If fired commercial ammo cases, run as far as possible into your resizing die, is still difficult to chamber afterwards, you either have resizing dies that are a little bit too big in dimensions or a chamber that is a little too small in dimensions. You can try small base size dies as suggested, or a bump die to see if the shoulder isn't being pushed back quite enough.

The easiest way for a rookie reloader to get an idea of what is going on is to find another reloader of .308 Winchester among your friends and acquaintances.

First, do your cases fully resized with your dies chamber easily in their .308 Winchester rifles? If so, then the problem isn't your .308 dies.

After that, have your friends use their dies to fully resize some of your fired commercial cases. Do those resized cases now chamber easily in your .308 rifle? It the answer is still no, it's still hard to close the bolt, then the problem is your chamber is too tight.

BTW, if you have two or more rifles of the same caliber, you also have two or more choices.
  1. Buy a set of dies for each rifle, setting them up for the rifle they go with.
  2. Readjust your single set of dies each time you load for the other rifle.
Most of us who have been reloading for rifles for a while actually want to have a crush fit with their reloaded ammunition. But it shouldn't be anywhere close to difficult to close the bolt.
 
With lack of a lot of information snd not wanting to speculate I personally think the rifle should be checked by a gunsmith. He/she could then tell you exactly the issue. Make sure to take your dies and fired brass. Cheap easy way to know.

SCG
 
Good grief.

Get new brass for the new rifle. Reloading brass that has been fired in a different chamber is a fool’s errand much of the time.
 
All I can suggest is that there are either of a few reasons why ammo loaded for one rifle wont fit in the other.

1) The bullets may be seated too long. Your seating depth must be set to the shorter of the two chambers if you want the ammo to be interchangeable.

2) The headspace is too long... The headspace must be set to the shorter of the two chambers if you want the ammo to be interchangeable.

3) The diameter of one chamber may be significantly larger in diameter than the other. If this is the case, resizing the brass in a regular resizing die may not be small enough to make the body fit in the smaller of the two chambers. In this case, you would need to dedicate brass to each rifle, then spring back wont be a problem, or use a small base die to ensure the brass diameter is at a minimum. This can make brass hard to resize in a single step, so you may need to run it through both the regular die and the small base die.

In reality, none of the above will result in particularly precise ammo for either rifle, much like factory ammo.

Ideally you should load for each specific rifle and dedicate that ammo to the intended rifle for best accuracy and brass life.
 
The very first I would do use use correct steel Go and NoGo gauges and verify that your new-to-you rifle has a SAAMI compliant chamber or not. As a hand loader, there is a lot that you can do if it is not compliant, but start there - is on the maker of a new rifle to hit that standard - you will want to know whether they did or not. Sadly, many new people have to take their rifle to a gunsmith to find that out - some of us chose to buy our own gauges and learn to dismantle bolts, etc. to use the gauges correctly - but each to their own - is a very good place to start from - yes, or no, this one is SAAMI compliant. When you say factory ammo is "tight", suggests that the rifle may not have hit spec.

Most of the rest follows from that - SAAMI compliant chambers have plus/ minus sizing, so do dies. As mentioned, nothing says that previously fired brass from another rifle sized in a random die will fit perfectly into any random chamber. Partially is what hand loading is about - to make that brass to fit that chamber, correctly. Can get as fussy about that as you want to. But your statement that factory brass was "tight" to chamber is a key point - any SAAMI compliant ammo should fit into any SAAMI compliant chamber for that cartridge.

Variations in production processes, perhaps? I bought several boxes of new, factory Weatherby brand 7mm WBY Magnum brass - loaded up a test series using up a full box of 20. 19 chambered and fired with no drama - still trying to discover what is different about the one new brass that would not chamber into a Weatherby Mark V chamber, when the other 19 did so. Something is different - have to find it... In this area, Weatherby brand factory ammo (when we could find any to buy) was $160 per box of 20 - would be one serious pissed off person to spend that much and then discover that even one did not chamber - but I can see that it might happen...
 
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chuck nelson said:
Good grief.

Get new brass for the new rifle. Reloading brass that has been fired in a different chamber is a fool’s errand much of the time.
Click to expand...

That's odd, I have had no issues running 2nd hand brass through any of my 4 .223 Rem rifles. I then reload those and fire them no problems. Then again none of my friends have issues either. It could be the rifle. YMMV
 
PPCLI-Jim said:
That's odd, I have had no issues running 2nd hand brass through any of my 4 .223 Rem rifles. I then reload those and fire them no problems. Then again none of my friends have issues either. It could be the rifle. YMMV
Click to expand...

What you describe is exactly what most of us experience, most of the time, until it does not. Then need to figure out why is that? Small base dies, simply swapping to different brand of full length die, using a Larry Willis on belted brass - all can become solutions for when the "normal" does not happen. And, as you say - it does start with the rifle - is it on spec or not? Some of us play with cartridges and chambers that have no SAAMI specs - making it up as we go - but we can, eventually, get our brass to fit correctly - most of the time using store-bought tooling, albeit maybe not as the manufacturer suggests or anticipated.
 
chuck nelson said:
Good grief.

Get new brass for the new rifle. Reloading brass that has been fired in a different chamber is a fool’s errand much of the time.
Click to expand...

That could be part of it, although I occasionally use cases fired in one rifle, resized, loaded, and fired in another rifle. No problems.

However, the OP (who has been MIA since his first post) said that even factory ammunition is hard to chamber. That takes the idea of fired cases from another rifle being the root of the problem.
 
There are very tight [Minimum SAMMI spec] chambers out there.

I have a Sako 7x57 here right now that has a very tight chamber.

Even a very hard "bump over" leaves the bolt with some resistance
to close on a resized case. I will take .005" off the bottom of my FL
die to accommodate this rifle.

Some time ago, I had a HB 22-250 that had the same issue. Modified
that FL die as well. My M700 Custom 308 Norma is another pretty tight
chamber, both in length and in diameter just above the belt.

I'll be willing to bet the OP's 783 has a minimum spec chamber, thus the
issues he is experiencing. Dave.
 
Eagleye said:
There are very tight [Minimum SAMMI spec] chambers out there.

I have a Sako 7x57 here right now that has a very tight chamber.

Even a very hard "bump over" leaves the bolt with some resistance
to close on a resized case. I will take .005" off the bottom of my FL
die to accommodate this rifle.

Some time ago, I had a HB 22-250 that had the same issue. Modified
that FL die as well. My M700 Custom 308 Norma is another pretty tight
chamber, both in length and in diameter just above the belt.

I'll be willing to bet the OP's 783 has a minimum spec chamber, thus the
issues he is experiencing. Dave.
Click to expand...

This right here. Another choice might be Redding competition shell holder set.
 
Eagleye said:
There are very tight [Minimum SAMMI spec] chambers out there.

I have a Sako 7x57 here right now that has a very tight chamber.

Even a very hard "bump over" leaves the bolt with some resistance
to close on a resized case. I will take .005" off the bottom of my FL
die to accommodate this rifle.

Some time ago, I had a HB 22-250 that had the same issue. Modified
that FL die as well. My M700 Custom 308 Norma is another pretty tight
chamber, both in length and in diameter just above the belt.

I'll be willing to bet the OP's 783 has a minimum spec chamber, thus the
issues he is experiencing. Dave.
Click to expand...

Learning as I go. How did you know that the "very tight to chamber" was a length issue, and not a "fat case" issue? I don't think my SAAMI GO or NOGO gauges do the case walls or the case head diameter, just the headspace length - so what you describe can also be from cases "too fat" or not tapered enough. I am assuming that you did Jiffy Marker or soot trick to find out the issue?? SAAMI calls out min and max diameters as well as min and max headspace, so more than one way to be "minimum spec", but two different issues??
 
Potashminer said:
Learning as I go. How did you know that the "very tight to chamber" was a length issue, and not a "fat case" issue?
Click to expand...

Which is why having somebody else full length resize a few of your once-fired commercial brass with their resizing dies and then try to chamber the resized brass can tell you a lot.

If you still have a problem closing the bolt on the your once fired commercial brass resized in another set of dies... then the problem almost certainly isn't the dies; it's the chamber.
 
Rick said:
Which is why having somebody else full length resize a few of your once-fired commercial brass with their resizing dies and then try to chamber the resized brass can tell you a lot.

If you still have a problem closing the bolt on the your once fired commercial brass resized in another set of dies... then the problem almost certainly isn't the dies; it's the chamber.
Click to expand...

While I really respect your and others opinions here I still lean towards just taking it to a gunsmith. While many of you are well spoken, and in my opinion, unsanctioned professionals in the field of firearms people need to work in there skill set. Plus it’s often faster and cheaper to get a pro. Heck, I can tell you how easy it is to rebuilt the starter on your truck, fix your dryer or replace your smartphone screen but none of those will blow up in your face. I would rather take a gun to a smith who would tell me the problem (if it was actually a problem rather than an issue) how it could be fixed or dealt with. I am going to learn as well as save money. The last time I bought go no go gauges I think a set was like $125.

Have a great day all.

SCG
 
if you take a fired case from the 700 ... clean and Size it ( no primer and no Bullet )

then take that Brass ( black sharpie it up neck and body ) and push it in to the chamber of the 783 ...........Do not use the Bolt .....Push it in with a finger/ thumb

then try to remove case ... if it comes out easily( or just a tiny tap with a cleaning rod ......
you have a shoulder length problem ( and that could be fixed by changing the headspace)

if you have to use a cleaning rod and pound it out you have a under size chamber and need to visit a expert = (gunsmith)

just my opinion which is worth nothing
 
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