Importance of recoil management on group size/accuracy

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Rickster66

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I'm new to the precision shooting discipline and am working on the fundamentals. I'm getting decent results but was wondering how important recoil control is to maintaining small group sizes or how muzzle jump is related to shot control/placement. I've been working on the usual core components - sight picture, respiratory pause, natural POI, load bipod, etc. but am not sure if I'm cradling the stock correctly in the pocket or if I need to place it more "solidly" or change my body/stock alignment in an attempt to provide a harder backstop to the recoil. I'm using a Tikka T3 CTR in a Cadex chassis with a PWS FSC30 compensator. I find that the muzzle will jump up and to the left of target with every shot. Should it? Should I focus more on how it sits in the "pocket" to get a more linear movement? Does it matter?

Any input, suggestions or advice from those who've been there, done that?

Thanks in advance.
 
If the muzzle is jumping up and left, then you are not at the "natural point of aim". This is usually an indicator for me that my body position has shifted and I need to adjust.

This means you are probably muscling the rifle. This will open groups up. Not a lot, but it will show up in just a bit bigger group sizes at short range (.25-.5" @ 100 & 200y) and will equate to misses at 800y+.

To practice I set a target and get into my shooting position, wether it be prone or at a bench. Get the cross hair on the target. Once I have a good sight picture I close my eyes, exhale completely & relax my entire body. Once I am fully relaxed I open my eyes. If I'm still on target I am GTG. If I am off target I adjust my lay left or right and repeat.

Once I learned trigger control, breathing etc. this simple technique really helped with consistent results on the firing line.

This is of course all supposition on my part, YMMV.
 
When i am ready to deliver the shot, i have no pressure nowere on the rifle, i dont fight the rifle, actually the only force applied to the rifle is the 24 ounces pressure on the trigger, when my set up is perfect ( this is when tiny groups occur) after the shoot, i am still on target or very close... JP.
 
Days that i really in my shooting bubble, i believe i can deliver the shot between 2 heartbeats... JP.
 
Interesting points. I do consciously try to no apply any "muscle" to the rifle but some shoulder pressure is applied to load the bipod. Should I not try to load the bipod and just leave everything relaxed? The rear is bagged and most of the pressure is downward from my cheekrest to the rifle.
@caramel - based on my fitness level the gap between my hearbeats is too small for my reaction time to hit :) (think hummingbird heartrate - lol) Seriously, though - you must have some pressure from the cheekweld , no? Does your trigger hand palm touch the handle at all? or is the trigger finger the only point of contact from your shooting hand?

Thanks.
 
Rickster66 said:
Interesting points. I do consciously try to no apply any "muscle" to the rifle but some shoulder pressure is applied to load the bipod. Should I not try to load the bipod and just leave everything relaxed? The rear is bagged and most of the pressure is downward from my cheekrest to the rifle.
@caramel - based on my fitness level the gap between my hearbeats is too small for my reaction time to hit :) (think hummingbird heartrate - lol) Seriously, though - you must have some pressure from the cheekweld , no? Does your trigger hand palm touch the handle at all? or is the trigger finger the only point of contact from your shooting hand?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

I guess that's the rub.....

Some point of contact or "user interface" is required with the rifle. Too much and you'll push the projectile off its intended target. Too little and you'll have to get out of the firing position to retrieve the rifle! :eek:

The only way to really find what works is to try. The point of the exercise is to ensure that your positioning behind the rifle isn't part of the problem.

Personally I find that if I lay in a prone position at a 30-40 degree angle to the rifle, I get good results out to 300. But if I am reaching out a bit further I get right in behind the rifle so that the butt-stock is directly in line with my right side. This gives me better results out to 800y. I also find that the rifle tends to recoil in a "straight up" manner with the second prone position, but tends to recoil "up and left" with the first. So even though I find the 30-40 prone more comfy than the straight on prone, I pretty much just shoot prone straight..... The biggest factor with my comfort in this position is that I am a bit "high centred" when prone!

Sounds like its time to get another shooter involved watching technique..... Having a knowledgeable buddy watching what you're doing can make a real difference (I know it did for me).
 
Rickster66 said:
Interesting points. I do consciously try to no apply any "muscle" to the rifle but some shoulder pressure is applied to load the bipod. Should I not try to load the bipod and just leave everything relaxed? The rear is bagged and most of the pressure is downward from my cheekrest to the rifle.
@caramel - based on my fitness level the gap between my hearbeats is too small for my reaction time to hit :) (think hummingbird heartrate - lol) Seriously, though - you must have some pressure from the cheekweld , no? Does your trigger hand palm touch the handle at all? or is the trigger finger the only point of contact from your shooting hand?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Cheekweld is not a pressure, it's more like a pillow were i put my cheek, i have realized to get stellar results, you have to understand that all movements that could affect accuracy, is caused by the operator...
Most of mouvements cause by the shot occur after the bullet have exited the barrel...
When i do very good on certain outing, i refer at it like i am having the perfect swing... JP.
 
I have actually gone through this myself. I've had the best groups shooting prone properly (parallel to bore), with minimal backwards pressure(I push into rifle rather than pull into me) then had 0.380" 5 round group (second grouping of day with federal match) my first time shooting prone and third time shooting my rifle. I had my natural point of aim set to the target, and was able to see impact almost instantly (scope stayed relatively on target). I'm trying to keep my scope on target as that's when you know your form is correct (from what I've read and watched).
 
In my opinion, it is less important what you do (although there are some extremes that will not help you), but more important that whatever you do, you do it consistently, from shot to shot.
 
The most important thing to keep in mind is that your muscles turn to jelly under recoil.
You will have the best results employing a technique that allows for a consistent, repeatable recoil path through your skeletal structure. Do not "push" into the bipod, instead position your body in relation to the rifle so that you "relax" into a little forward pressure. Make your cheek weld on the cheek bone, and simply set your head on the stock, relax your jaw.
Keep your mass in line with the bore when prone shooting. Employ a natural point of aim.
 
Lots and lots of good advice. We all do things a little different, to get the end result. Mindset is something I'll add to this - if you feel rushed, or pissed off, or anxious, or worried about the recoil slapping you - you're gonna be off. I'm no Yogi or Buddhist, but you should be very calm, zen like, resting your cheek with a good field of view in that position, not straining to get a full FOV or to get parallel with the exit pupil of your scope. If you're having trouble with that, you need to adjust your gun with different rings, or a cheekrest, or move your scope forward or back. If you feel tense, or like you're struggling with something - CHANGE IT!!! If you're worked up about something, go for a 2 minute walk and come back. If you're still pissed off, go get your AR and blast off a couple mags....!!!!! Maybe that day isn't the day for LR....

Make yourself as steady as you can. I use my left clenched fist under the buttstock, or the heel of the grip, sometimes, for example.

The longest golf drives come when you "just let it go". Same with shooting clays. LR shooting is no different in that regard.

Sounds to me like you know what to do, you just want us to tell you that you're doing it right.

You are.

-J.
 
I have had good success loading the bipod by leaning into it while pulling the stock back into the shoulder lightly with my finger tips.
I also noticed a significant difference if you do not pull the trigger straight back. In terms of recoil, I am of the opinion that the projectile has left the muzzle well before you feel recoil. Recoil management is solely effective for maintaining visuals on the target for follow-ups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c69Bd5ntPE
 
ntm said:
The most important thing to keep in mind is that your muscles turn to jelly under recoil.
You will have the best results employing a technique that allows for a consistent, repeatable recoil path through your skeletal structure. Do not "push" into the bipod, instead position your body in relation to the rifle so that you "relax" into a little forward pressure. Make your cheek weld on the cheek bone, and simply set your head on the stock, relax your jaw.
Keep your mass in line with the bore when prone shooting. Employ a natural point of aim.
Click to expand...

Exactly this.
 
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