Improving follow up shots

[mallard12]

Looking for a way to improve follow up shots. From what I've been reading most AR's are over gassed and by reducing the amount of gas with a adjustable gas block, it helps with the jump.

So, will a adjustable gas block show a improvement? or must more be done like spring, buffer and lightweight bolt carrier?

Also, anyone using the Vltor A5 stock combo kit?

Thanks

 

[F22_RaptoR]

It's not uncommon that an AR is drilled with a slightly oversized gas port to allow .223 ammo to cycle reliably, and if you use 5.56 NATO pressure ammo there IS a noticeable increase in felt recoil.

However using an adjustable gas block is only a really good option to fine tune a rifle to a specific load, and for the most part there is a sacrifice in reliability. And there is only so much this can do, you can only dampen the movement of the bolt carrier and buffer. Using a heavier buffer can reduce the speed the bolt cycles at, and decrease some of the bump as the buffer hits bottom. But again, this can only do so much before you reduce reliability in cycling.

The MOST EFFECTIVE option to reduce recoil is a muzzle brake or compensator, with the downside being a MUCH louder rifle. There is a great sticky up at the top of comparisons between different muzzle devices in this forum.

My AR used to have a griffin armament flash comp, and the felt recoil was nothing, I could do double taps without even trying (with a Geissele S3G trigger). HOWEVER, the thing was so loud that it was stupid to use. I use an AAC flash hider on it now, and there is noticeably more movement in the gun however I don't really do much competitive shooting anymore so it's kind of silly to have a purposely loud rifle when I'm not competing for time.

Several of the manufacturers have "blast shields" for their compensators and/or brakes now (Griffin Armament, Surefire, AAC, Ferfrans) that will blow the concussion forwards. When shooting for time you can take it off and go to town, and then put it on if you're just at the range and a bit more recoil is okay so you don't piss off everybody at the range.

 

[Melnibonean]

F22 Raptor is bang on. Change your brake. It will keep your muzzle on target, allowing for repeatable follow up shots. You may get some gas blown back at you. Your shooting neighbors will definitely hate you for the concussion waves you'll send their way, but such is life. However, there are brakes that do a good job and mitigate that somewhat; you'll have to do your research.

Speaking from personal experience, I can now rapid fire-to-empty regular capacity mags (in the US) into a 3" or so circle from 50 yards after changing out the birdcage flash hider for a Precision Armament's M4-72 brake and bearing down properly, but as mentioned, at the cost of it being louder. YMMV

 

[mebiuspower]

Yes get the Vltor A5.

 

[Gunnerlove]

Body position is the key to recoil management in all positions. When standing keep the top of the butt below the top of your shoulder, move the butt closer to your mid line, square up to the target, bend your knees a bit, place 90% of your weight on the balls of your feet, pull the rifle in tight and hang on to it.

When trying to figure it out fire one round and pay attention to where the gun goes, then adjust positioning to correct or reduce that movement.

 

[mikethebike]

get a muzzle brake then get a carbine class with earl green. I'm still planning on attending his class on september 26-27, maybe I'll see you there, its in abbotsford.

he'll show you how to shoot like a boss

i have a lantac dragon for sale in the ee

i wrote a huge article on muzzle devices:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1213917-5-56-Muzzle-devices


85% of bullets going where they need to go is APC, sight Alignment, sight Picture, trigger Control, absolutely required. Doing this fast, just requires repetition on the exact SAME rifle or handgun.

After 5 years, im still working on mastering those 3, so that every single shot has those 3 fundamentals perfectly, when ive completely mastered those 3 ill move on to the navy seals, swat, jtf, crazy stuff. A lot of people THINK they have those 3 mastered, but really they dont.

I dont know about you but 85% is pretty good enough for me.

This is just my bs, might not be worth more than someone else's bs, but by just working on those 3 things ive improved my shooting tremendously. That way im concentrating on 3 things, not 12, concentrating on 12 things will slow you down.

check my sig line, you're good to go...

 

[Luis1]

After getting and practicing good body position and technique, you could start to perform cadence drills. (Look it up) I practice these once every few range sessions an really help your body build muscle memory by adapting to the guns recoil. Really helps you perform faster followup shots.

 

[Nisser17]

Practice,Practice,Practice, magic parts are no replacement for rounds down range.

Keep Calm Shoot on!

 

[mallard12]

Thanks Guys,

Saved me from buying a bunch of parts that I don't need, although looks like I need more ammo but that's the fun part.

Great sticky on muzzle brake's, spent a lot of time reading and watching the vids...Good stuff

mikethebike,

I would like to attend a class with Earl Green but I'm already registered in a IPSC match on that weekend. Are these classes on a regular schedule or is this a one time thing?

Thanks

 

[Ar180shooter]

All you need.

 

[JayCarver]

Speaking from personal experience, I can now rapid fire-to-empty regular capacity mags (in the US) into a 3" or so circle from 50 yards after changing out the birdcage flash hider for a Precision Armament's M4-72 brake and bearing down properly, but as mentioned, at the cost of it being louder. YMMV

You should shoot 3gun, you would do well on the longer rifle shots, keeping doubles in the "A" zone at 50yds would be quite impressive let alone 3".

 

[mustang979]

Speaking from personal experience, I can now rapid fire-to-empty regular capacity mags (in the US) into a 3" or so circle from 50 yards after changing out the birdcage flash hider for a Precision Armament's M4-72 brake and bearing down properly, but as mentioned, at the cost of it being louder. YMMV

That's on par with, and possibly exceeding, Jerry Miculek....

A 3 inch, 30 shot group, at 50 yards, free standing, with slow and deliberate fire would be impressive, but a mag dump rapid fire group? Some pretty wild claims.. I'm afraid I'm going to call shenanigans on that.

 

[Ganderite]

I wanted to be able to get fast shots in CQB with my AR, so I tested various muzzle brakes at 25 yards (standing).

I put up an aiming mark on a large sheet of paper. I numbered each of the brakes to be tested (5) and tried each of them with 4 different ARs (7.5 " to 14").

The test consisted of a series of double taps, where I pulled the trigger for the second shot as fast as I could. I wanted to see where the barrel was aimed after recoil from the first shot.

For some combinations the second shot went very high. On one combination, the second shot went lower than the aiming mark.

This combo was not impressive:

This was much better:


I also discovered that the second shot tended to go right, so I indexed the brakes to about 1:30, so they would push the send shot a bit tot the left. (I am right handed.)

 

[Melnibonean]

You should shoot 3gun, you would do well on the longer rifle shots, keeping doubles in the "A" zone at 50yds would be quite impressive let alone 3".

I do, but there's usually no need for more than 2 per target

That's on par with, and possibly exceeding, Jerry Miculek....

A 3 inch, 30 shot group, at 50 yards, free standing, with slow and deliberate fire would be impressive, but a mag dump rapid fire group? Some pretty wild claims.. I'm afraid I'm going to call shenanigans on that.

I didn't mean it to brag, and I'm going to state this right now: I've never been able to do that before the new muzzle brake. I've used the PWS FSC and the Silencerco Specwar (which is very good, BTW) and was able to keep tight groups in the A zone. I bought this new brake after watching the YouTube vids on it and my grouping shrunk. I give it all the credit.

I'll be more than happy to let you shoot my rifle yourself to see what I'm talking about. If you do your part with proper stance and hold, the muzzle will hardly move on you with 5.56: less with .223

PM me if you're around Mtl or Ottawa and we can set something up

 

[fdc]

That's on par with, and possibly exceeding, Jerry Miculek....

A 3 inch, 30 shot group, at 50 yards, free standing, with slow and deliberate fire would be impressive, but a mag dump rapid fire group? Some pretty wild claims.. I'm afraid I'm going to call shenanigans on that.

If it seems too good to be true...

That would be some of the most fantastic shooting in the world. I thought that practice makes perfect, now I find out that you can buy it and its called muzzle brake. Cancel cheap ammo order...

 

[Melnibonean]

If it seems too good to be true...

That would be some of the most fantastic shooting in the world. I thought that practice makes perfect, now I find out that you can buy it and its called muzzle brake. Cancel cheap ammo order...

(Edited because I don't want the infraction).
.
.
.
Instead, I'll extend the same invitation to you as I did to mustang979 above. Feel free to try it yourself.

 

[duuder]

Wait, is this claim being able to casually put 30 rounds in a 4 inch circle at 50 yards, or is it rapidly firing the 30 rounds into a 4 inch group at 50 yards? I'm confused as to which claim is being made.

Sorry for furthering the derailment of this thread...

 

[Melnibonean]

Wait, is this claim being able to casually put 30 rounds in a 4 inch circle at 50 yards, or is it rapidly firing the 30 rounds into a 4 inch group at 50 yards? I'm confused as to which claim is being made.

Sorry for furthering the derailment of this thread...

I said "rapid fire" and I own it. It's absolutely true. (don't think I'm pulling the trigger as fast as humanely possible either, but I'm not taking resetting time between shots either).

It was to illustrate how a good brake can allow quick follow up shots, and the M4-72 on my rifle makes it hardly move.

Here's some articles:

Gear Review: 5.56 Muzzle Device Shootout

King Armory contacted TTAG and asked if we’d like to review their KA-1222A muzzle brake/flash hider. As there are just way too many options from way too many manufacturers to review them individually, the project quickly escalated into doing a bit of a “shootout” with muzzle devices from multiple companies. Hopefully we’ve achieved a decent mix of well-known units from well-known manufacturers as well as some from smaller shops that many folks may not be familiar with. Basically, the intention here is to highlight a variety of muzzle device options — we gathered 35! — state my blunt opinion on machining, fit/finish, and utility plus any items of note, along with relevant stats. Since many of these devices specifically claim to reduce recoil I created a test rig to measure just that, and a winner has been declared . . .

Recoil Testing

First, a quick note: not all of these muzzle devices are brakes/comps, or were otherwise designed to mitigate recoil. For some that is the primary goal. Some balance recoil management with flash hiding, and some have no recoil reduction consideration whatsoever (e.g. dedicated flash hiders or a linear compensators). For most brakes and comps, felt recoil reduction is only one goal anyway, with the other primary benefit being the reduction of muzzle movement in any other direction. The slow-mo footage for each device in the following video does show some noticeable differences in up/down muzzle movement as well as flash, but this test was specifically designed for measuring recoil — rearward energy.

Keep in mind that we’re also talking about the fairly minor recoil of .223/5.56 here, and many prospective purchasers will put recoil reduction at the bottom of their list behind other considerations like reducing flash and concussion.

With my gas piston AR-15 strapped in a rest and the gas block turned to “off,” which means the action remains locked shut and 100% of the gas going out the muzzle, I proceeded to “sled test” all of the muzzle devices plus control measurements of the bare muzzle and a standard A2 birdcage. The results were surprisingly repeatable and consistent. In fact, the average of the extreme spreads — difference between shortest and farthest result — for everything in the test (including bare muzzle and A2, which were the least consistent of all) was only 0.1943 inches. Seven brakes did multiple shots with the exact same result each time.

For the record, I measured in 1/16-inch increments and chose not to round when converting that to decimal measurements later.

With all of that said, our recoil reduction winner is…drum roll please…

Precision Armament’s M4-72 Severe-Duty Compensator!

With this bad boy on the muzzle, the test rig slid back an average of 2.4375 inches. With a bare muzzle, it slid 9.175 inches. That’s a 73.84% reduction for you folks keeping score at home.

I was going to force y’all to watch the video to see the results (you know, I make like three cents every time the video ad is clicked), but I couldn’t bring myself to do it. Also, thanks to TTAGer NotoriousAPP’s awesome data skillz and willingness to help out, we have not only my boring tables but also some cool charts to show as well

[youtube]3FD-Rou9-9A[/youtube]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/11/jeremy-s/556-muzzle-device-shootout/

AR-15 Muzzle Brake Shootout #2

Welcome back! Last November, we compared 35 different AR-15 muzzle devices. That shootout, like this one, pitted them against each other in a sled test to see which reduced rearwards recoil energy the most. However, this time around there are [almost] no flash hiders, linear compensators, or other devices not actually designed to reduce recoil. A total of 37 brakes and compensators joined in the fun for roundup part deux, although 8 of them are carry-overs from the first test, including the previous recoil eliminating winner. . .

Again though, recoil reduction is only one of many variables worth considering — and how they’re each weighted is a matter of personal opinion and/or intended use — when choosing which muzzle device will adorn one’s rifle. In addition to the objective recoil test, all brakes are listed alphabetically below and I have stated my frank opinion on machining, fit/finish, and utility plus included any items of note as well as the relevant stats for each. Hopefully both muzzle device shootout installments will help narrow down the shopping list.

Additionally, a flash hider-specific test is coming in a few weeks!

Recoil Testing

For many brakes and comps, felt recoil reduction is only one goal, with the other primary design intention being the reduction of muzzle movement in any other direction. A steady muzzle means steady sights, and steady sights means fast, accurate shooting. Usually the boogeyman is “muzzle rise” (which I believe is usually just the natural byproduct of rearwards recoil energy anyway). The slow-mo footage for each device in the following video does show some noticeable differences in up/down muzzle movement as well as in flash, but this test was specifically designed only for measuring recoil — rearward energy.

Keep in mind that we’re also talking about the fairly minor recoil of .223/5.56 here, and many prospective purchasers will put recoil reduction at the bottom of their list behind other considerations like aesthetics, price, flash, concussion, etc.

With my gas piston AR-15 strapped in a rest and the gas block turned to “off,” which means the action remains locked shut and 100% of the gas goes out the muzzle, I proceeded to “sled test” all of the brakes/comps plus controls of bare muzzle and standard A2 birdcage. The results were highly repeatable and consistent. In fact, the average of the extreme spreads — difference between shortest and farthest result — for everything in the test was only 0.1470 inches. Eight brakes did multiple shots with the exact same result each time.

For the record, I measured in 1/16-inch increments and chose not to round when converting that to decimal measurements later. Averages of multiple measurements were, however, rounded to 4 decimal places and recoil reduction percentages were rounded to 2 places.

With all of that said, our recoil reduction winner is…drum roll please…

Precision Armament’s M4-72 Severe-Duty Compensator!

Yes, you read that right, folks. The winner from shootout #1 is now reigning champion. King of the hill. Dominating the field once again, really, winning by a pretty decent and entirely repeatable margin. With the M4-72 on the muzzle, the test rig slid back an average of 2.3438 inches. With nothing on the muzzle, it slid back an average of 8.8438 inches. That’s a recoil reduction of 73.50% (in shootout #1, it came out to 73.84% so we’re pretty darn consistent here!).

Congrats to Precision Armament for hanging onto the crown, and for coming up with such an incredibly effective brake in such a small, lightweight package!

Recoil test results for all of the entrants can be seen in the graphs and tables below. New for Muzzle Brake Shootout #2 is a performance (percentage reduction in recoil) per dollar graph! I’ve also included a performance per dollar graph based on the first Muzzle Brake Shootout so these figures can be compared across both tests. Click on any of the images below — and on any of the thumbnail-sized photos of the brakes to follow! — to see them full-size. Additionally, the raw data seen in the table can be downloaded as an Excel doc by clicking here.

[youtube]zQdUQSHcxLk[/youtube]


http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/04/jeremy-s/ar-15-muzzle-brake-shootout-2/