In the Market for a Black (Non-Res) Rifle - ACR/XCR etc

Berta

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Hi guys,


I'm looking at making a purchase in the next few weeks - I've been mainly looking at the RA XCR and the Bushmaster ACR (With the 18.5 Stainless barrel to make it Non-Res), but am open to ideas with Non-Restricted, Semi Auto, Decent Calibre (Humane for Medium sized game) in mind.

Kinda swaying towards the XCR as it's available in 7.62x39 and 7.62 NATO.

What are you guys' opinions? I've heard a few horror stories about the lengthened barrel on the ACR to make it non-res (Misfeeds/Misfires etc). Also, the fact that it's only available in 5.56 NATO (Unless I'm mistaken?) kinda restricts it's hunting abilities to varmint/small game I guess..


Budget is around the $3k mark for a nice setup for up to 400 Yds Hunting.


Thanks in advance.


Looking forward to hearing your suggestions..


Berta.
 
The XCR-L is available in .223, 6.8SPC and x39. For the .308 version, you are looking at the M which is more than $3K new retail and very heavy for a hunting rifle.
The ACR is more accurate, needs the NR conversion and .223 only. It ain't no light weight either.
There are many threads about both these rifles. You can search for them in the Black rifle section.

Personally, I would hunt with a bolt action just for the weight savings alone! Of all the things on a hunting trip, I find the rifle the thing you carry the most and use the least so I prefer it to be light.
 
Well if you're hunting big game, you probably don't want the 5.66/223, and if you're looking at 400 yards, that pretty much eleiminates 7.62X39. Pretty much leaves you with the XCR-L in 6.8, or the XCR-M in .308. Both are great rifles, and as has been mentioned, both might be a little heavy for hunting (although I've packed my XCR-M all over the place. A real good sling is the secret), and both are about 3K new. You might want to read the threads on these rifles to see what others have found, and maybe check the EE, as you might find one at a decent price
 
ACR converted to Remington 30AR is pretty much your only option for 400yd medium game capable non restricted AR 15 size rifle
 
Budget is around the $3k mark for a nice setup for up to 400 Yds Hunting.

Looking forward to hearing your suggestions..

.

I suggest sticking to full size cartridges and forget the intermediates if taking shots on game out to 400 yards.

- M1A .308
- FN FNAR .308
- XCR .308
- Modern hunter .308 (more money).
 
I'm biased towards the ACR since I have one and I'm getting another. You can get it chambered in 204, 223, 6.5 Grendel, 30 AR and 450 bushmaster.

With that being said, I still think you should get the 308 XCR-M.
 
Hi Guys,

Thanks very much for the replies.

I meant 400 yds as an Absolute Max. I guess my 'normal' hunting range would be significantly less than that distance. It would just be nice/a luxury to have a round that could drop something at that distance if needs be. Sorry - I should have been more concise with my original post.

Food for thought


Thanks again


Francis
 
I definitely would not hunt anything bigger than a coyote at 400yds with any cartridge that will fit into an AR magazine. That leaves you the XCR-M, Keltec RFB, FNAR, Modern Hunter in 243, 308 or 260rem which are all going to cost you more than $3000 once you put optics on them.
Honestly though, as was mentioned earlier I would just buy a nice bolt action for hunting then a Tavor or ACR for fun and varmint/predator hunting. I'd love to encourage you to buy an ACR and sell you my 6.8SPC conversion for it but I don't think it's suitable for making humane kills on medium sized game past around 250 yards.
I don't know your skill level or how experienced you are hunting so I can't say for sure but it doesn't sound like you're very familiar with the capabilities of the cartridges your asking about. If you use these small intermediate cartridges on game you stand a very good chance of wounding and then chasing for hours trying to get a chance at a finishing shot. If I was hunting deer with one of these cartridges I wouldn't even consider taking a shot past 200 yards. Just remember that the further you shoot the bigger your groups get and the less energy the bullet has for penetration and expansion. Perfect shot placement becomes critical to success which is rarely possible under field conditions shooting freehand, off a stump or off a fence post.
I love my black rifles and really enjoy shooting them but I've tried hunting with them and now when it's time to hunt I pull out the Remington 700 with a light profile barrel.

FNAR and theres one in EE curently. Spend the balance on Sightron STAC glass.

If you must have a semi auto this is excellent advice. I've shot the FNAR and Sightron makes great optics.
 
I think you'll find the extra weight will make for a tough hunt... I carry a .30-06 mountain rifle built off an old Mauser action. My brother-in-law carries a scoped M305. He's been in the infantry for 26 years, and STILL manages to complain by the end of the hunt.

Of course, this isn't an issue if you hunt in a way that doesn't require a lot of hiking.

That said, I fall into the "buy a bolt gun for hunting and spend the rest on ###" camp.
 
My XCRM with gas block recall done by Wolverine which is pretty accurate for hunting rifle IMO. You can hit 400m with hand load no problem if you do your part:)


http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1241594-XCR-M-comparison-light-profile-barrel-to-heavy-profile-barrel?highlight=XCRM

100M with bipod and rear bag, 10rnds of handload,H335
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3K doesn't leave much for optics after the rifle, mounts, rings, sling so unless you open that budget um about 1k more or hunt hard on the EE your not going to attain your goal. In my experience and within your budget consider restocking an M305. It might be on the heavy side but most of these black rifles are in 308. For that 400m shot on medium game I would forget anything less than 308.

Moe
 
I'm in agreement with Moe on the calibre choice for med. game up to 400m.

3K doesn't leave much for optics after the rifle, mounts, rings, sling so unless you open that budget um about 1k more or hunt hard on the EE your not going to attain your goal. In my experience and within your budget consider restocking an M305. It might be on the heavy side but most of these black rifles are in 308. For that 400m shot on medium game I would forget anything less than 308.

Moe

Below are some/all? the NR Semi.-Auto. Black rifles I know of (in Canada) in the .308 calibre.
Some shoot better then others, but all have the accuracy potential for hunting med. game up to 400m. with quality ammo. with perhaps a little tweaking required for some...

FNAR under $1,700+/- new weighs about 9lbs. standard barrel, approx. 10lbs. heavy barrel. (MOA accuracy or better possible, but more complexity in dis/assembly),

Robinson Arms XCR-M $3,200+ new, $2,500+/- used, 9lbs. with light barrel & 10lbs. with heavy barrel. (handles well, simple to break down with good warranty support),

Famae 542 $3,000 reg. new (on sale now $2,650 @ The Shooting Centre) approx. $2,500+/- used & weighs about 8Lbs. (expensive #5 shot magazines and spare parts may be harder to find, saying that The Shooting Centre out of Calgary does care/warranty for all there Famae rifles sold),

ATRS Modern Hunter new $4,000+ used slightly less, as light as 8Lbs. w/o optics. (very well crafted, but cannot feed all ammo. types, possibly MOA or better accuracy and a Canadian manufacturer so no worries with warranty...),

Norinco M-305 new $500 & weighs about 8lbs. w/o optics (affordable, good value and aftermarket stocks are available as are many upgrades to improve accuracy...),

Sprigfield M1A new $2,000+ similar to the M305 (the M305 is copied off of the M1A) & has many options available for improving accuracy just like the M305 does,

Keltec RFB a Bull-Pup style forward ejecting rifle, new $3,000, used $2,500+/- approx. 8lbs. a good choice for hunting in heavy bush due to it's compact size...

It all depends what you really are after. All these rifles are priced approximately and w/o tax, so not all of them are in your price range.
Also you must consider the cost of an optic (plus a case, sling and extra mag.'s etc.), because once the cost of optic is taken into consideration (quality scopes are generally around a $1,000+ new) your choices are even less; especially if buying new.

I personally like the idea of one rifle for all purposes (target shooting & hunting etc.) As it allows for a larger budget then if buying a semi.-auto. for target shooting and a bolt action for hunting, plus you get more experience with the one rifle and that never hurts when it comes time to make that 400m shot.

Many of these rifles can be made to shoot very well and a couple may even get close to quality bolt action accuracy, while others here will be relegated to battle rifle status only (at least w/o a considerable amount of work done and/or funds spent) meaning 2-4MOA. Some would argue that 4MOA is not enough for a 400m shot on as medium sized game and I would agree. So with that said you might want to think about the accuracy potential of each rifle and how much it would cost to get the accuracy you want with said rifle (easier said then done).

The Modern Hunter is very similar to an AR rifle (there are several parts that interchange as it was designed to be similar to an AR) and is sold as a match grade rifle.
The Famae 542 is still in use as a battle rifle in the Chilean Army and would work well for a multi-purpose hunting rifle while the FNAR may be found in a SWAT team role, precision target or hunting rifle.
RFB's and XCR-M's along with the M305's/M1A'a all have there place amongst Canadian shooters and can serve most any role needed, especially after a little tweaking and/or effort with handloads.

I hope this helps a little and that I've covered all the rifles available; do your research and get specific with your wants/needs and complete budget including all accessories and scope.
Although these rifles can get expensive, they do hold decent resale values if taken care of well, so worst case scenario you lose a few hundred (plus taxes:() if you decide you want a different model (and you'll probably want them all;)).

Cheers D
 
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When a I purchase a firearm the first thing I look at is spare parts availability. There is nothing available for the ACR. John has some for the XCR. They are starting to trickle in for the Tavor.
 
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