Index Finger Manipulated Retention Holsters Frowned Upon?!

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Hey All,

I'm interested to hear why index finger manipulated holsters like the blackhawk serpa holster have suddenly started to be some frowned upon. These styles of holsters have been out for years yet it seems just in the last year or so they are starting to be sneered at.

Are there really that many shooters with that much lack of awareness or seriousness when they draw that they are actually letting their fingers ride inside the trigger guard?

I have two. One for a sig p226 and one for a 1911 both given to me. Regardless, in using them, after depressing the catch lever my finger rides on the slide or frame. NOT on or inside the trigger guard. Precisely the way I would expect the designers vision to be. So I am trying to understand the large concern around them.

How is something like this any different then other fundementals like lack of muzzle control or sweeping someone? I see that kind of #### at ranges all to often and is much more of a concern to me then some idiot shooting themselves in the foot because they either a) have a lack of serious appreciation to the possible dangers when drawing a loaded gun or b) an improperly matched holster?

Not looking to start a flame war just interested in some sincere opinions.
 
Its not just suddenly, they have been banned in more than a few well known and respected training schools in the US for a long while. Off the top of my head I know Larry Vikers and Tactical Response bans them.

Do a search on here or google and you will find all the info you seek. There have been more than a few threads on this here over the years.

The big issue is that under stress most dont keep their fingers flat while depressing the button, but curl their finger and use the tip of the index finger to push it. All the while using a lot of force because they are under the clock or tring to go too fast. That is when it gets dicey.

For the risk its not worth it, you can use many of the other holsters out there with the same speed that don't have the ND risk.

Shawn
 
3 basic issues with the Serpas

1) under stress, people sometimes blow the draw and the gun doesn't release. They instinctively tend to react by pulling harder (and gripping harder) which is a serious problem: the harder they grip, the more the index finger sympathetically curls, which is how the various NDs have occured.

2) the release tab is prone to getting stuff stuck under it, locking the gun in the holster.

3) they are made out of garbage materials and are prone to breakage as a result.

A more obscure issue is that one-handed malfunction drills which require you to re-holster with the butt facing forward can result in the gun locking in the holster and requiring disassembly to get it out.

In short...they are a holster design with serious problems, and for similar money you can have a Safariland, which is a vastly superior holster.
 
I use a Safariland Level II Holster for a G17/G22

The Serpa's are a bad design for the reasons mentioned above, but from I have seen the main one being that it instructs the shooter to place pressure over the trigger guard area when drawing. In a relaxed environment at the range it is not to much of a worry, but in a stressful environment people tend to use it more of a "button" placing more pressure, allowing the finger to curl, and like mentioned encouraging a ND. Some people will say that it is a training issue, but from what I have seen it's a fatal design flaw.
 
For my G17 i have both a 6004 and 5188. I hear nothing but good things about their ALS line as well. I think my next is going to be a 6377 to try out the ALS. Really I don't think you can go wrong with any of safarilands line up.

Shawn
 
misanthropist said:
3 basic issues with the Serpas

1) under stress, people sometimes blow the draw and the gun doesn't release. They instinctively tend to react by pulling harder (and gripping harder) which is a serious problem: the harder they grip, the more the index finger sympathetically curls, which is how the various NDs have occured.

2) the release tab is prone to getting stuff stuck under it, locking the gun in the holster.

3) they are made out of garbage materials and are prone to breakage as a result.

A more obscure issue is that one-handed malfunction drills which require you to re-holster with the butt facing forward can result in the gun locking in the holster and requiring disassembly to get it out.

In short...they are a holster design with serious problems, and for similar money you can have a Safariland, which is a vastly superior holster.
Click to expand...
Add a fourth:

When drawing a 1911 under the stress of competition or just the desire to do well the action of gripping the gun quickly can cause the shooter to inadvertently push down on the safety before the gun clears the holster and with that action plus what has been described above the gun can go bang when silence is more appropriate.

To the OP I believe Gunsite also has banned the holster and several IDPA Area Coordinators in the US report clubs have banned them from club competitions and/or use at their ranges in the US.

Take Care

Bob
 
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