INFO NEEDED PLS 1897 antique "munts" 5 shot service revolver
- Thread starter VZ-fan
- Start date
Written on top the gun is "JE MAINTIENDRAI" and "JOH MUNTS AMSTERDAM" on the left side is "J MARECHAL" "CHERATTE"
From what I gather it was made between 1897-1899. The number on the cylinder and gun are matching, 9.4mm cartridge, all working. Dutch police or service revolver?
From what I gather it was made between 1897-1899. The number on the cylinder and gun are matching, 9.4mm cartridge, all working. Dutch police or service revolver?
Nice looking revolver.
Determining the year of manufacture will be important. If it can be proved that it was made in 1897 then it qualifies as an antique. If there is no way to prove that, it will most likely fall into the prohibited category due to the length of the barrel.
Some information can be found here:
http://www.coreden-sterling.co.uk/page04.html Second from the bottom is similar to yours.
More here: (use Google translate if you don't speak French)
http://www.littlegun.be/ma_collection/belgique/be%20klmno/a%20be%20marechal%20j%20fr.htm
The gun was made in Belgium at Cheratte by J Mareschal
Je maintiendrai is Dutch for 'I will maintain' and is part of the Coat of Arms of the Netherlands So you are correct that this gun was used in some sort of official capacity.
As for value, well. You have to determine if it is an antique or not. Antique would be the most valuable. Restricted second. Prohibited wouldn't be worth much in Canada sadly as the market is so small and getting smaller all the time.
Determining the year of manufacture will be important. If it can be proved that it was made in 1897 then it qualifies as an antique. If there is no way to prove that, it will most likely fall into the prohibited category due to the length of the barrel.
Some information can be found here:
http://www.coreden-sterling.co.uk/page04.html Second from the bottom is similar to yours.
More here: (use Google translate if you don't speak French)
http://www.littlegun.be/ma_collection/belgique/be%20klmno/a%20be%20marechal%20j%20fr.htm
The gun was made in Belgium at Cheratte by J Mareschal
Je maintiendrai is Dutch for 'I will maintain' and is part of the Coat of Arms of the Netherlands So you are correct that this gun was used in some sort of official capacity.
As for value, well. You have to determine if it is an antique or not. Antique would be the most valuable. Restricted second. Prohibited wouldn't be worth much in Canada sadly as the market is so small and getting smaller all the time.
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It is a Dutch police revolver, not a Dutch army service revolver, it was made between 1897 and 1899. The Dutch armed forces of the time were issued with the M.73 old and new model revolvers in 9.4 mm caliber.
Here is some info on this gun sold in the UK.
http://www.gunstar.co.uk/Antique-Pistol-Hand-guns/MUNTS-DUTCH-POLICE-gun-for-sale-gs4170.aspx
Munts was the retailer.
"Another marking of interest is the large L.P. mark on the cylinder. Dutch law at the time demanded that at least two blank cartridges should be discharged as a warning before a live round could be fired: very humane – but as these revolvers are chambered for five rounds that only left three to subdue the assailant/s... "
Here is some info on this gun sold in the UK.
http://www.gunstar.co.uk/Antique-Pistol-Hand-guns/MUNTS-DUTCH-POLICE-gun-for-sale-gs4170.aspx
Munts was the retailer.
"Another marking of interest is the large L.P. mark on the cylinder. Dutch law at the time demanded that at least two blank cartridges should be discharged as a warning before a live round could be fired: very humane – but as these revolvers are chambered for five rounds that only left three to subdue the assailant/s... "
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Thanks for responses so far guys.
I guess the serial number would determine the exact year of manufacture? How would a person go about dating the year of manufacture for the pistol with the serial number?
Anybody got a time machine to lend?
I guess the serial number would determine the exact year of manufacture? How would a person go about dating the year of manufacture for the pistol with the serial number?
Anybody got a time machine to lend?
Unfortunately if the maker didn't keep track of serial numbers there isn't much hope that you will be able to determine the year by that method. Due to the fact that the second link I shared above can't determine if it was made by Joseph Marechal or Jacques Marechal I wouldn't hold out much hope for determining the year by serial number. The only other possibility is if there is some sort of a mark on the gun that can be proved to have only been in use in 1897 or earlier.
This gun is a really good example of how ridiculous some of our laws are. There is a pretty good chance it is a prohibited piece which few people may own.
I'm doubly saddened by this as I own an FN1922 in .380auto with the Dutch crest on the slide (a restricted firearm and last in the list of my first link above) and it would be nice from a collectors point of view to own the revolver that it replaced. The only option would be to have it deactivated which would be a crime.
This gun is a really good example of how ridiculous some of our laws are. There is a pretty good chance it is a prohibited piece which few people may own.
I'm doubly saddened by this as I own an FN1922 in .380auto with the Dutch crest on the slide (a restricted firearm and last in the list of my first link above) and it would be nice from a collectors point of view to own the revolver that it replaced. The only option would be to have it deactivated which would be a crime.
Contact the Dutch police museum, they are usually helpful. And I agree with Clotho, this piece might very well be prohibited.
http://www.politiemuseum.nl/
e-mail nederlands@politiemuseum.nl
http://www.politiemuseum.nl/
e-mail nederlands@politiemuseum.nl
OneBarfly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
My gun appears on the Belgium site and I paid to have it identified. Due to a lack of records on the s/n's, I couldn't get it deregistered. So, it's prohib. Value would likely be more in the US, but I would put it around 250 to 300 Can$
http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies ma/a marechal joseph gb.htm
With our sensible gun laws, if the gun is a prohib, you can't register any new gun into the system. And must be registered as a 12-6 prohib before you can sell it to a 12-6 licenced guy. That makes perfect sense.
It's a nice looking gun, would be nice to have, and I have a prohib licence. Legally, I think it has to be welded up to own or sell. And that should be the crime.
It's a nice looking gun, would be nice to have, and I have a prohib licence. Legally, I think it has to be welded up to own or sell. And that should be the crime.
Unfortunately if the maker didn't keep track of serial numbers there isn't much hope that you will be able to determine the year by that method. Due to the fact that the second link I shared above can't determine if it was made by Joseph Marechal or Jacques Marechal I wouldn't hold out much hope for determining the year by serial number. The only other possibility is if there is some sort of a mark on the gun that can be proved to have only been in use in 1897 or earlier.
This gun is a really good example of how ridiculous some of our laws are. There is a pretty good chance it is a prohibited piece which few people may own.
I'm doubly saddened by this as I own an FN1922 in .380auto with the Dutch crest on the slide (a restricted firearm and last in the list of my first link above) and it would be nice from a collectors point of view to own the revolver that it replaced. The only option would be to have it deactivated which would be a crime.
The gun laws are ridiculous. I think they should move forward, one year, every year. For example next year 1899 should be considered antique, the year after, 1900, 1901 etc to keep pace with deteriorating firearms. Otherwise, there will come a day when we'll only have reproduction flintlocks in the antique category.
