Info on J. Grainger

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gunsaholic

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A few years back I acquired a double barrel percussion gun. No markings on it anywhere except J. Grainger on the lock plates. I could find no information on a J. Grainger. I see on another forum a J. Grainger double barrel has come up for sale. The seller also states he could find no information on it and it has no markings except for the locks which say J. Grainger. I am thinking maybe Grainger was a maker of lock plates? Anyone have any info or reference to J. Grainger either as a gun maker or lock builder?
 
http://www.littlegun.info/arme nat div/a zaf grainger gb.htm

J, GRAINGER & SON

GRAHAMSTOWN - SOUTH AFRICA about 1865-1890.

Juxtaposed mixed rifle, often called "cape gun" when relatively large gauges are concerned: thus 1 shot with ball (Rifled bore) on the left and a shot with hunting cartridge (Unrifled bore) on the right.

Similar to those manufactured by the Nagant house of Liege with their juxtaposed adaptation of the system says “Rolling block”.

The Grainger house is either the manufacturer, or more probably the retailer, or the house which generated this special order for this cape gun. (Which says “cape” thinks fatally of South Africa)



Best I could fine. I also came across listing (auctions for a rolling block rifle and a recver with the J grainger markings. Would love to see a photo.
 
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Mine is a typical looking percussion double barrel as is the one currently for sale. When I first received mine I was and still am uncertain about it. It looks like it has hardly seen any use. Hard to believe a gun could be in the condition it's in if it is from the mid 1800's. I don't think it has been restored. Then I thought maybe a modern gun someone made and used Grainger locks. The gun that has come up for sale on another site is very similar so I'm still confused . I will dig mine out and post pics tomorrow.
 
Does the gun have any proof marks?

There was a John Grainger in Toronto 1854-1868. His son, William, joined the gunmaking business in 1856. This information is from the Internet Gun Club database.
 
Okay, I dug the gun out. The only marks are Birmingham view marks on the bottom of the breech plugs and J Grainger on the locks. As I mentioned, this gun seems to be in darn nice condition if from the 1800's. I took a closer look. The rib appears damascus yet the barrels do not. Looking at the breech area, I see the thin engraved line which to me would be indicating that the gun has had new tubes at some point. If so, somebody sure went to a lot of trouble/work on this gun. The work is very well done and not a high dollar gun. Other thoughts?
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https://i.imgur.com/8z8ap96.jpg[/img
[img]https://i.imgur.com/7ZlrN5T.jpg
Xnsowir.jpg
 
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Yes, and both barrels ring nice and clear the full length of the tubes and ring for some time after flicking them with my fingernail. I do believe they are indeed barrels from a breech loading gun . You can see the remains where the barrel lumps were attached. It also appears as though the original top rib has been laid on top of the breech loading barrels rib to bring the rib to the proper height. Indeed it was an ambitious project. The bores are very nice as well. Both locks work very well and no cracks anywhere in the wood.
 
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Pinfire said:
Does the gun have any proof marks?

There was a John Grainger in Toronto 1854-1868. His son, William, joined the gunmaking business in 1856. This information is from the Internet Gun Club database.
Click to expand...

Steve, would I maybe be correct in thinking that the barrels were originally obtained in the white from Birmingham and the gun made in Canada by John Grainger?
 
Yikes, I've never seen a conversion of breech-loading barrels to a muzzle-loader done in this way, if that is what it is. It certainly does look like someone cut and fitted a set of tubes from an old breech-loader to the breech plugs of the original Grainger gun (the line-up marks on the plugs don't align to anything on the tubes, for instance), and laid the older rib on top. I suppose anything is possible, and if that is what was done, it is skilled work. But...why?

The barrels might nevertheless be damascus, but covered with 'Birchwood Casey Plum Brown' finish applied (it doesn't look like rust browning). The stock and locks may well be original, with a refinish when the barrels were fitted.

Very curious!
 
Well you have a real mystery there, and possibly unique. Definitely breech loader barrels that have been sleeved into the original barrel stubs. Possibly done at the gun's manufacture to use existing tubes already in stock but most likely these breech loading tubes and top rib were retrofitted to the muzzleloader. If the original barrels were unsalvagable on an otherwise excellent condition gun and the replacement tubes were on hand I guess this would be the least expensive way to put it back in service. No reproof marks or sleeved proof marks so this work was done in North America, no proof required. Very nicely sleeved, the join is very hard to spot. Sleeving like this came into being in the late 1940's - early 1950's, so that helps date the work. May have been done by a gunsmith or a very talented machinist/hobbiest, perhaps just to test his own skills. You would use a low value gun for this purpose. When you shoot it, test the barrels for correct convergence ( both shoot to the same point of impact). This will give you a good indication of the skills of the workman. Lucky you.
 
Yes, it is no doubt unique. I was wondering about convergence as well. It's funny, I've had this gun for a few years and just put it in the collection and never really "scrutinized" it. Never even got around to shooting it. I will have to try it out and see how well the regulation is.
I was just communicating again with the fellow who has the other Grainger for sale. He removed the barrels and had a look. His gun has the same view mark on the breech as mine but his barrels show the full set of Birmingham proof marks for the time period 1855-1868. So likely my original barrels had a full set of Birmingham proofs as well. So now the question is did John Grainger of Toronto retail these guns or did that John Grainger have anything to do with them??
 
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Pinfire said:
I suspect all this happened long after J. Grainger had anything to do with it.
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Oh yes, I wasn't referring to the replacement of the barrels. That would have been long after John Grainger's time. I was referring to where and when the guns were made. I'm guessing that since my gun, and the other that is for sale, just say J Grainger instead of & son, that they are from around 1855. I just found this information on a previously sold J Grainger gun.
From Gun's International

John Grainger moved to Toronto from England in 1854 and set up shop in 106 King Street West. Grainger's son William was taken into the business in 1856 when the firm was renamed John Grainger & Son (which would indicate that this gun was made in 1854 or '55). They remained in business until about 1868 when they seem to have moved back to England. Canadian - made guns from this period are very rarely seen in the U.S., especially in fine condition like this example. This is a very well-made and attractive gun and would make a great addition to any collection. {Ref: "The Canadian Gunsmiths 1608 to 1900" by S. James Gooding; 1962} Antique
 
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I have an English percussion double that has been rebarreled, with another pair of English barrels. Didn't realize it until I removed the barrels and noted that the underlug had been moved. Remarkable thing is that the replacement barrels worked with the original standing breech. I'll take some photos.
 
gunsaholic said:
Okay, I dug the gun out. The only marks are Birmingham view marks on the bottom of the breech plugs and J Grainger on the locks. As I mentioned, this gun seems to be in darn nice condition if from the 1800's. I took a closer look. The rib appears damascus yet the barrels do not. Looking at the breech area, I see the thin engraved line which to me would be indicating that the gun has had new tubes at some point. If so, somebody sure went to a lot of trouble/work on this gun. The work is very well done and not a high dollar gun. Other thoughts?
5Ns8trb.jpg

vgIPDB9.jpg

https://imgur.com/8z8ap96
https://i.imgur.com/7ZlrN5T.jpg
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Xnsowir.jpg
Click to expand...
Hi there. I realise this is a old thread but I hope you still receive it. My ancestor was James Grainger of Birmingham, England, and he made gun locks. It was a family trade and he exhibited at the Great Exhibition of 1851 in London where he would have likely talked to other gun makers from around the world and sold his locks. I am searching the world for examples of his work. Do you still have the gun? Many thanks!
 
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