info on legally shooting antique handguns

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BCJager

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looking for info on the legality of shooting my antique revolver? ive searched the RCMPs website... i understand the transportation law(lock box), unloaded storage / display law... but nothing about being able to shoot it....?

Id like to shoot it on my trapline, by my cabin where i site in my rifles and let my kids shoot, just looking for others who have had these questions answered.


Danny
 
Ive shot my antiques on crown land. From what i was told it is totally legal. Althought if you are confronted by any sort of law enforcement I would bet it would be quite a problem. That is why i always had tried to carry a antique letter or a FRT report stating the antique is indeed an antique. Contacting the CFO and asking for confirmation on antique status but not going through fully with the antique letter works to. Ive imported antiques from the US using this method. Because the registration is BS, i made a mistake trying go ahead with the antique letter and have been waiting over a year for it, i got rid of that antique in the mean time lol.
 
I've seen some fine lookin' Colt SAA, legally an antique and chambered in 45ACP that would require a lot of explaining to do if caught out shooting by a CO or LEO. Can't expect them to know all the laws.
 
Handling Section of the CC states the Antiques may be handled, loaded & discharged in a place in-accordance with all applicable Acts of Parliament and of the legislature of a province, regulations made under such acts and municipal by-laws... can find that under the Storage, Display, Handling & Transportation section of the Justice Laws Website.

In plain terms, if you're in an area (gun range or not) where you can load, handle and shoot your .22 or .410 (or whatever non-restricted) then you can do the same there-too with your Antique... the "municipal bylaws/provincial acts of parliament; yada-ya" is what you have to know for your location far as dis-charging, loading and so-forth goes... if you've got a trapline, I'd imagine that would qualify as perfectly fine, but it does boil down to the particulars of your location and whatever the Province lays out for that area. That-part is up to you to find out & to know.
 
I had a friend who took his S&W in .44 Russian with his handloads as his bush pistol. He made it a point to have (in a waterproof baggie) ALL of the relevant paperwork; ie: antique status letter, high-lighted sections of the RCMP fact sheets & sections of the firearms act. If he was ever stopped by the OPP or whoever, he had it all in black and white that what he was doing was well within the letter of the law. Many LEO's don't know the statutes regarding antique firearms so it's up to us to try to minimize any negative interaction with law enforcement and maybe educate some of them in the process.
 
trebor2880 said:
I've seen some fine lookin' Colt SAA, legally an antique and chambered in 45ACP that would require a lot of explaining to do if caught out shooting by a CO or LEO. Can't expect them to know all the laws.
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Those might be an issue... what with the FRT changes and all.
I'd be very careful with the colt Saas...
 
thank you


whiskeywillow said:
Handling Section of the CC states the Antiques may be handled, loaded & discharged in a place in-accordance with all applicable Acts of Parliament and of the legislature of a province, regulations made under such acts and municipal by-laws... can find that under the Storage, Display, Handling & Transportation section of the Justice Laws Website.

In plain terms, if you're in an area (gun range or not) where you can load, handle and shoot your .22 or .410 (or whatever non-restricted) then you can do the same there-too with your Antique... the "municipal bylaws/provincial acts of parliament; yada-ya" is what you have to know for your location far as dis-charging, loading and so-forth goes... if you've got a trapline, I'd imagine that would qualify as perfectly fine, but it does boil down to the particulars of your location and whatever the Province lays out for that area. That-part is up to you to find out & to know.
Click to expand...
 
I suspect that regardless of what the written law says, about half the time or more, if you are in the woods with an antique handgun and carrying it or shooting it, CO s or police will confiscate it until some level of local authority (commanding officer or prosecutor) decides whether they feel you were legal or not. Bottom line is that you do not want to put yourself in a position where your legality is likely to be challenged and further, if challenged and your paperwork is not accepted as fact you need to be prepared to jump through numerous hoops and legal expenses to prove yourself innocent.

Beyond that, even if you have an RCMP letter stating the gun is an antique, the RCMP make take the approach that recent policy overrules what the letter says and what the written law says

cheers mooncoon
 
mooncoon said:
I suspect that regardless of what the written law says, about half the time or more, if you are in the woods with an antique handgun and carrying it or shooting it, CO s or police will confiscate it until some level of local authority (commanding officer or prosecutor) decides whether they feel you were legal or not. Bottom line is that you do not want to put yourself in a position where your legality is likely to be challenged and further, if challenged and your paperwork is not accepted as fact you need to be prepared to jump through numerous hoops and legal expenses to prove yourself innocent.

Beyond that, even if you have an RCMP letter stating the gun is an antique, the RCMP make take the approach that recent policy overrules what the letter says and what the written law says

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...

What recent policy change are you referring to ? The policy of no longer giving antique status to converted or altered pre 1898 restricted hand guns like changing a pre 1898 SAA 45 LC barrel and cylinder and deregistering from restricted to an antique status friendly caliber like 41 LC ? Or has something else had a policy change with regards to antique status handguns ?
 
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mooncoon said:
I suspect that regardless of what the written law says, about half the time or more, if you are in the woods with an antique handgun and carrying it or shooting it, CO s or police will confiscate it until some level of local authority (commanding officer or prosecutor) decides whether they feel you were legal or not. Bottom line is that you do not want to put yourself in a position where your legality is likely to be challenged and further, if challenged and your paperwork is not accepted as fact you need to be prepared to jump through numerous hoops and legal expenses to prove yourself innocent.

Beyond that, even if you have an RCMP letter stating the gun is an antique, the RCMP make take the approach that recent policy overrules what the letter says and what the written law says

cheers mooncoon
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Bold Part...

Typically, the locations anybody would be carrying an Antique (or desire to carry an Antique) would be for wildlife protection, and such locations where "that" is obviously necessary are typically also locations regulated by Fish & Wildlife Officers (not RCMP; & not that that matters)

Anyway, F&W especially in these regions/& locals are definitely familiar with the RCMP's ATT/ATC permitting layouts because those regions/& divisions mostly all have working traplines &/or remotely working personell that do carry sidearms. So that said, just because a person (you or me) is seen carrying there during a hunt or a scout trip, fishing trip, or even just while hiking, doesn't mean the Officer is going to confiscate anything nor have any reason to. Their first order of business is to ask you whether you-yoursef have a permit for what you're carrying..

...I can tell you from experience the RCMP Antique-status letter is sufficient. It has all that's required on it and fortunately is also in a layout they are familiar seeing. While it's a fact that many of them may not be aware of the "Antique" classification, [because] the Rcmp Letters are done up in such a way that makes them similiar to what an officer sees for Modern ATT/ATC permits (via their trappers & such) they are content with the Antique ones too. In my own case, (my) Letter was handed back to me with great interest and a following conversation about what it was n everything, the grips, etc etc... but no further "legality" discussion. It is what it is you guys, no different than being confronted with a .410 or 30-30 slung on your shoulder. Use your brains & keep your paperwork handy should you be asked for permitting; done. You are doing your part and that's all you need to do. The comments I've read in so many of these threads stating you're going to be shoved face down in the ground and cuffed & different BS like that is ridiculous.
 
rjf1963 said:
What recent policy change are you referring to ? The policy of no longer giving antique status to converted or altered pre 1898 restricted hand guns like changing a pre 1898 SAA 45 LC barrel and cylinder and deregistering from restricted to an antique status friendly caliber like 41 LC ? Or has something else had a policy change with regards to antique status handguns ?
Click to expand...

Those two policies come to mind but I can easily see someone feeling safe with an antique letter and having that overruled on the basis that altered pre 1898 hand guns are now considered modern. I think there is a trend by the RCMP to keep nibbling at the edges of antique status to reduce the number of guns with antique status. One problem with policies is that for the most part a person does not know they exist until they affect their own guns. Even a letter is not of complete assurance; I bought a S&W knockoff with an RCMP letter stating it to be a 44 russian. The cylinder was 44 russian but the barrel turned out to be .451 and I changed it to 45 schofield so that it remained an antique in accordance with the policy of the day. I think the gun was probably assembled from parts in the late 1800s and for that reason should it be considered originally a 45 long colt and therefore not a antique ?

I did ask a recently retired judge "can a person be found guilty of not obeying a policy as opposed to not obeying the written law ? " His answer was " I don't know "

cheers mooncoon
 
whiskeywillow said:
Anyway, F&W especially in these regions/& locals are definitely familiar with the RCMP's ATT/ATC permitting layouts because those regions/& divisions mostly all have working traplines &/or remotely working personell that do carry sidearms. So that said, just because a person (you or me) is seen carrying there during a hunt or a scout trip, fishing trip, or even just while hiking, doesn't mean the Officer is going to confiscate anything nor have any reason to. Their first order of business is to ask you whether you-yoursef have a permit for what you're carrying..
.
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You are fortunate to be in that sort of an area. I live in an area that is much less remote and trappers cannot easily get a carry permit for trapping purposes. One in particular was told that his traplines were not remote enough and further that he had to earn more than 50% of his income from trapping (he earned about 40% from trapping). My limited personal experience with police and paperwork was that while some were knowledgeable most were not, much less able to distinguish an antique gun from a modern one.

More importantly, many of the gunnutz people asking about legality appear to be asking in the context of crown land a few miles outside of town rather than in the context of being in a remote area

cheers mooncoon
 
rjf1963 said:
What recent policy change are you referring to ? The policy of no longer giving antique status to converted or altered pre 1898 restricted hand guns like changing a pre 1898 SAA 45 LC barrel and cylinder and deregistering from restricted to an antique status friendly caliber like 41 LC ? Or has something else had a policy change with regards to antique status handguns ?
Click to expand...

Those two policies come to mind but I can easily see someone feeling safe with an antique letter and having that overruled on the basis that altered pre 1898 hand guns are now considered modern. I think there is a trend by the RCMP to keep nibbling at the edges of antique status to reduce the number of guns with antique status. One problem with policies is that for the most part a person does not know they exist until they affect their own guns. Even a letter is not of complete assurance; I bought a S&W knockoff with an RCMP letter stating it to be a 44 russian. The cylinder was 44 russian but the barrel turned out to be .451 and I changed it to 45 schofield so that it remained an antique in accordance with the policy of the day. I think the gun was probably assembled from parts in the late 1800s and for that reason should it be considered originally a 45 long colt and therefore not a antique ?

I did ask a recently retired judge "can a person be found guilty of not obeying a policy as opposed to not obeying the written law ? " His answer was " I don't know "

cheers mooncoon
 
BCJager said:
looking for info on the legality of shooting my antique revolver? ive searched the RCMPs website... i understand the transportation law(lock box), unloaded storage / display law... but nothing about being able to shoot it....?

Id like to shoot it on my trapline, by my cabin where i site in my rifles and let my kids shoot, just looking for others who have had these questions answered.


Danny
Click to expand...

The short answer is that antique firearms are specifically classified as non-firearms. Firearms regulations refer to firearms, not non-firearms. Follow the rules for antiques and you will be fine - and note that there is no regulation that says you can't shoot an antique in a place where it is safe and practical to do so.

If something is illegal then there will be language in the criminal code that describes that illegality and the penalties - and there is no reference to illegalities for shooting an antique firearm in a place where it is safe and reasonable to do so. To me that would mean that discharging an antique should be Ok in a place/time where it would be also be suitable for discharging a non-restricted firearm.

There is nothing in the criminal code saying it is illegal to wear one shoe. OTOH there is no law that says I CAN wear just one shoe but we can assume that in the absence of prohibitions in the law, it is ok to wear just one shoe if you choose to do so. Laws basically tell you what is illegal, they do not specify every possible activity or circumstance and if you are looking for the law that specifically says that it is ok to discharge an antique then you had best stay away from antiques.

Basically - use your head. Don't be carrying or displaying in public, be careful and responsible and don't screw it up for the rest of us who have been doing this for many years.

I'd suggest you carry a copy of the antique regulations and that you make some effort to have documentation to prove that your antique does meet antique status regulations. That's easier than it sounds in most cases.
 
OP, the short form of all this is YES, you can take your antique out to the bush and shoot it. The next thing is PAPER UP. Then, if you are also hunting, it would be very easy for any LEO to construe a charge of hunting illegally. In BC, handguns are listed as forbidden to hunt with. If you are intending to be hunting leave the antique at home.

I've run into a few LEOs while shooting my antiques on a neighboring property. In one case it came close to getting nasty but the OIC showed up and wanted to know what was going on, read the documents and became interested in the pistols himself. He even asked if he could shoot one. Very politely of course. All went well.

Be careful, use your big head instead of your little head. LEOs are not lawyers. They often fly by the seat of their pants and for good reason. Be polite, make sure you have your documentation concerning the laws regarding antique firearms. DON'T try to impress people in a campground by walking around with one holstered on your hip. In today's environment you could end up face down with handcuffs in place or worse.

All of the same safe storage/transport rules apply to antiques as they do to any other firearm.
 
bearhunter said:
... All of the same safe storage/transport rules apply to antiques as they do to any other firearm.
Click to expand...

There are some differences in the legal requirements for storage/transport of antiques as compared to regular firearms, but if you store them and transport them as you would a regular firearm you will be exceeding requirements and can't go wrong.
 
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