Information, Opinions and Direction - Please Consult me

T

Turillo

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Happy New Year!! I wish you all the best in 2018.

I recently moved to an area where I have land available to play - and, started thinking about buying a new rifle that can stretch its legs out accurately; more efficiently than what I already have.

From what I've read/decided - I think I'll buy a rifle chambered in 6.5CM - I can use it for both long range shooting and long range hunting.

Now onto the optics. I've been a Zeiss guy my whole life. Been taught to never cheap out on optics. But, from what I understand through research; Zeiss doesn't seem to be favored for Long Rage shooting, or am I mistaken? Please educate me on that.

Otherwise - please tell me about what scopes are best suited for long range shooting/hunting. Best Clarity, performance and weather I should tech myself MILRAD, or MRAD? Do I have the right? LOL Let's leave cost aside for now...

I'm all ears and eager to learn. I love shooting. I believe in the sport and will teach my son to learn and love the sport.

Thanks again and all the best.
 
Well, first you want to decide about your reticle, if you want to work in mil-dots(miliradians) or MOA's (minute of angle). They are both good but different systems, some guys(myself included) prefer to work in MOA's, others in mil-dots(that includes military) so you want to explore those two systems for pros and cons on your side. The next thing, when you pick your scope, please don't pick a scope that mixes mil-dot reticle and MOA turrets, it will drive you nuts, it really is stupid to even build scope that way and as much as manufacturers are catching up to this , some still build them this way. Next, don't get swayed by huge magnification, these scopes bring other problems unless you get high end scope, you wouldn't believe how far you can shoot with a simple 4-16 magnification but 24 magnification scopes are getting more and more reliable these days. Optics have made a lot of progress over the past several years, we can enjoy affordable quality optics today we could not even dream of 10 years ago. The next, while glass quality and clarity is important, if your scope does not track correctly, your very good view is completely useless, it's that simple. Another thing is warranty. A lot of guys buy only based on good performing warranty, which makes some degree of sense but you buy your scope to shoot it, not to constantly ship it back and forth, the best warranty is the one you never have to use BUT and this is important, your scope must be for all practical purposes serviceable in Canada. A tactical scope is a very precise and delicate instrument, yet it is subjected to very rough treatment(recoil & outdoors, etc.) and if just a little bit goes wrong on the inside, well then you have again very useless and expensive piece of aluminum, so keep that in mind, you can't ship it easily into the US because of their import/export laws and if you want to ship it to Europe, you'll need another scope serving you as a spare.
 
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IMR4320 said:
Well, first you want to decide about your reticle, if you want to work in mil-dots(miliradians) or MOA's (minute of angle). They are both good but different systems, some guys(myself included) prefer to work in MOA's, others in mil-dots(that includes military) so you want to explore those two systems for pros and cons on your side. The next thing, when you pick your scope, please don't pick a scope that mixes mil-dot reticle and MOA turrets, it will drive you nuts, it really is stupid to even build scope that way and as much as manufacturers are catching up to this , some still build them this way. Next, don't get swayed by huge magnification, these scopes bring other problems unless you get high end scope, you wouldn't believe how far you can shoot with a simple 4-16 magnification but 24 magnification scopes are getting more and more reliable these days. Optics have made a lot of progress over the past several years, we can enjoy affordable quality optics today we could not even dream of 10 years ago. The next, while glass quality and clarity is important, if your scope does not track correctly, your very good view is completely useless, it's that simple. Another thing is warranty. A lot of guys buy only based on good performing warranty, which makes some degree of sense but you buy your scope to shoot it, not to constantly ship it back and forth, the best warranty is the one you never have to use BUT and this is important, your scope must be for all practical purposes serviceable in Canada. A tactical scope is a very precise and delicate instrument, yet it is subjected to very rough treatment(recoil & outdoors, etc.) and if just a little bit goes wrong on the inside, well then you have again very useless and expensive piece of aluminum, so keep that in mind, you can't ship it easily into the US because of their import/export laws and if you want to ship it to Europe, you'll need another scope serving you as a spare.
Click to expand...

For Warranty work shipping to US was no problem. paperwork was handled by manufacturer, FedX pickup/delivery/ return, shipping all covered. Swarovski in this instance.
 
IMR4320 said:
Well, first you want to decide about your reticle, if you want to work in mil-dots(miliradians) or MOA's (minute of angle). They are both good but different systems, some guys(myself included) prefer to work in MOA's, others in mil-dots(that includes military) so you want to explore those two systems for pros and cons on your side. The next thing, when you pick your scope, please don't pick a scope that mixes mil-dot reticle and MOA turrets, it will drive you nuts, it really is stupid to even build scope that way and as much as manufacturers are catching up to this , some still build them this way. Next, don't get swayed by huge magnification, these scopes bring other problems unless you get high end scope, you wouldn't believe how far you can shoot with a simple 4-16 magnification but 24 magnification scopes are getting more and more reliable these days. Optics have made a lot of progress over the past several years, we can enjoy affordable quality optics today we could not even dream of 10 years ago. The next, while glass quality and clarity is important, if your scope does not track correctly, your very good view is completely useless, it's that simple. Another thing is warranty. A lot of guys buy only based on good performing warranty, which makes some degree of sense but you buy your scope to shoot it, not to constantly ship it back and forth, the best warranty is the one you never have to use BUT and this is important, your scope must be for all practical purposes serviceable in Canada. A tactical scope is a very precise and delicate instrument, yet it is subjected to very rough treatment(recoil & outdoors, etc.) and if just a little bit goes wrong on the inside, well then you have again very useless and expensive piece of aluminum, so keep that in mind, you can't ship it easily into the US because of their import/export laws and if you want to ship it to Europe, you'll need another scope serving you as a spare.
Click to expand...


Great info. Thanks for the reply. I'm leaning towards mil-dots with first focal plane scope..kinda sad I cant use one I already have....Ziess 6x24x56...

Thanks again and looking forward to more replies.
 
IMR4320's post is a really good one. I can't think of much to add.

Zeiss doesn't get a lot of love in the long range. This is primarily due to few reticle choices, and turrets lacking 'positive' clicks.

They do have a military 'branch' branded Hensoldt which are designed for tactical purposes. Cost prohibitive for most. We do have our own canadian manufacturer Tangent Theta (formerly Premiere Reticles) in the 'cost no object' category.

Swaro has a sister company called Kahles - 624i with SKMr would be a great option, and would be my top pick in your position.

The vortex razors are really good, but super heavy. I haven't tried a viper pst gen II yet, but there is a 5-25x50 in that lineup with FFP and they have been well reviewed this far.

Bushnell ERS might be worth a look, underrated by most, but those who have them seem to like 'em.

Nightforce ATACR gets a lot of love too.

Here is an older but thurough and still somewhat relevant comparative review; http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/09/19/tactical-scopes-field-test-results-summary/
 
Hand Skills said:
IMR4320's post is a really good one. I can't think of much to add.

Zeiss doesn't get a lot of love in the long range. This is primarily due to few reticle choices, and turrets lacking 'positive' clicks.

They do have a military 'branch' branded Hensoldt which are designed for tactical purposes. Cost prohibitive for most. We do have our own canadian manufacturer Tangent Theta (formerly Premiere Reticles) in the 'cost no object' category.

Swaro has a sister company called Kahles - 624i with SKMr would be a great option, and would be my top pick in your position.

The vortex razors are really good, but super heavy. I haven't tried a viper pst gen II yet, but there is a 5-25x50 in that lineup with FFP and they have been well reviewed this far.

Bushnell ERS might be worth a look, underrated by most, but those who have them seem to like 'em.

Nightforce ATACR gets a lot of love too.

Here is an older but thurough and still somewhat relevant comparative review; http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/09/19/tactical-scopes-field-test-results-summary/
Click to expand...

I would be curious to try the Razor, my hope is it has better quality control than the other Vortex' lines. I currently have a PST gen 1, HST and Diamondback, every single one has a problem, Diamondback has a small piece of debris inside that sometimes sticks to my front lens, sometimes it drops off and is undetectable, HST is beginning to wear out and it's showing on tracking and PST that was replaced under warranty and had to be promptly repaired and my testing after this repair has not passed it yet. Some years back I shot Bushnell Tactical 6-24x50, this was the one with mil-dot reticle and MOA turrets, it drove me banana but at least it tracked well and the glass was fantastic but then I damaged it due to my fault, Bushnell was very good to me and replaced it for a very reasonable fee but the replacement had to be 2 times fixed and then they sent me another brand new replacement, I got tired of the mils & MOA combo and sold it and switched to Vortex. Now I have a Sightron S-Tac on the way.
 
Im a huge fan of Vortex and Burris for my long range setup's. I have yet to shoot a sightron, or nightforce so I cannot compare. However I can vouch for my Burris Veracity 5-25x50 as it is on my main long range rig. For the price, its unreal. Has the "zero stop" feature, it is first focal plane and the price is very affordable for a new long range shooter. In fact a very good buddy of mine who shoots F-Class uses one, he's won a pile of matches with his and his savage 10 6.5 CM.

The perk for Vortex is their warrenty, lifetime, no questions asked. Another buddy has a Viper gen 2 on his RPR and it was nice too, maybe not quite as clear as my burris at 850 yards but I did like it.

I have never owned a Ziess, shot them but never owned one and from what Ive heard from a few guys I know who do own them and shoot them, they are tough to track your shot with if that makes sense. I dont think they arent a quality scope, but theyre made for hunting purposes, not long range shooting.

Good luck in your search, and Happy New Year!
 
Tons of reading to do and lots to learn. Give google Precision Rifle blog and read some of the write ups on LR/Tactical scopes on there.

The Vortex Razor lines are equal to the best of the best like Nightforce, Schmidt & Bender, Kahles, etc.

I researched for probably 2 years before I went and bought the Vortex Razor AMG 6-24x50. Incredible scope, tracks perfectly, great glass, and not near as heavy or bulky as the Gen 2 Razor.
 
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