Hey gang, dunno if this post is better here or in pistols. Anyway, I'm just starting to delve into these guns (and I mean JUST) to compliment my #4 Long Branches. I'll prolly get around to ordering a copy of Inglis Diamond for proper reference soon. In the mean time, could somebody give me a quick breakdown on the model designations? I'll be in the market for a WWII era, so a ser # range would be helpful too. Are there any other good ref books I should be looking at?
Inglis 9mm questions
- Thread starter Oddbawl
- Start date
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The Inglis is a wartime pistol. AFAIK the production stopped at war's end. There are 2 general categories: Canadian military #T#### "T series" and various number schemes of Chinese contracts. I think those have #CH#### serials.
The Chinese guns typically have shoulder stock slots on the frame, and may or may not have the tangent back sight. Otherwise the guns are the same. There are of course early and late variants within the runs.
A third group is known as "Lunch Box Specials", and these are parts guns made from pieces that came out of the factory or out of military parts bins. Other than as a curiousity piece, I would stay away.
Many "Brownings" were lost by servicemen and repatriated under various cover stories. Some are in outstanding condition, and have notable provenances from wellknown soldiers. Other guns have come home when their second or third owning country went to some other gun. There are pitted and rephospated guns that came through from China.
The Chinese guns typically have shoulder stock slots on the frame, and may or may not have the tangent back sight. Otherwise the guns are the same. There are of course early and late variants within the runs.
A third group is known as "Lunch Box Specials", and these are parts guns made from pieces that came out of the factory or out of military parts bins. Other than as a curiousity piece, I would stay away.
Many "Brownings" were lost by servicemen and repatriated under various cover stories. Some are in outstanding condition, and have notable provenances from wellknown soldiers. Other guns have come home when their second or third owning country went to some other gun. There are pitted and rephospated guns that came through from China.
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Get the book. Then you will know what you want or need before spending money on the wrong gun. There are some variables to these handguns, and the book will help you determine what you want.
There are still minty 'T' serialled Inglis pistols out there for around the $800-900 mark. Lessor condition guns should run you from $450 to $650.
The Chinese guns are usually priced lower in Canada, although they seem to command a premium in the US.
There are still minty 'T' serialled Inglis pistols out there for around the $800-900 mark. Lessor condition guns should run you from $450 to $650.
The Chinese guns are usually priced lower in Canada, although they seem to command a premium in the US.
Inglis Brownings
There are many variables to determine value,condition being the main one.For example,some of the Chinese "CH" production actually had Chinese letters on the slide which seems to excite some folk.I found the long range tangent sights on these quite amusing.I believe they were marked in 50 or 100 yd increments,when at best the pistol is a 25 yd weapon to get yourself out of trouble.The Chinese also used the German Mauser pistols with these sights and shoulder stocks and wanted their Inglis pistols outfitted accordingly.These pistols have devotees who are highly anal over the degree of intactness of the original factory decal on the front of the grip and will value them accordingly.I never saw a decal on any of the well used pistols which I carried and used during my service.In fact,it used to be a bit of a problem to find unworn mags which would feed properly.Other than that,they were a stone reliable piece.I remember Bob Stanfield being quite intrigued by the one I carried when I squired him around the Golan Heights 28 yrs ag
ne thing for sure,the Inglis HP was 100% Canadian made and was/is still a fine service pistol.
There are many variables to determine value,condition being the main one.For example,some of the Chinese "CH" production actually had Chinese letters on the slide which seems to excite some folk.I found the long range tangent sights on these quite amusing.I believe they were marked in 50 or 100 yd increments,when at best the pistol is a 25 yd weapon to get yourself out of trouble.The Chinese also used the German Mauser pistols with these sights and shoulder stocks and wanted their Inglis pistols outfitted accordingly.These pistols have devotees who are highly anal over the degree of intactness of the original factory decal on the front of the grip and will value them accordingly.I never saw a decal on any of the well used pistols which I carried and used during my service.In fact,it used to be a bit of a problem to find unworn mags which would feed properly.Other than that,they were a stone reliable piece.I remember Bob Stanfield being quite intrigued by the one I carried when I squired him around the Golan Heights 28 yrs ag
ne thing for sure,the Inglis HP was 100% Canadian made and was/is still a fine service pistol.
one bit of warning, if you ever decide to buy a wood stock for your CH, be very careful what you buy cos there are lots of fakes out there , apparently the fakes are so well made that current owners who are selling them not aware they are fakes, fakes sells for US$150 and up, genuine sells for approx US$300 and up.
I can only echo the recommendation already made by others to acquire Clive's book before purchasing a pistol ... you will learn a LOT ...
All Inglis pistols were produced in 1944 and 1945 - ending in October of the latter year, so several months production - and many thousands of of both No. 1 and No. 2 pistols - are indeed "post-war" manufacture ... though they are indistinguishable from "wartime" production except by serial number.
The official "model designations" were "Pistol No. 1" (for the longrange-sighted/stock-slotted Chinese model ... CH numbered) and "Pistol No. 2" (for the fixed-rear sight, unslotted "Canadian" model ... T numbered), but the pistols themselves were not marked as "No. 1" and "No. 2". I presume that was because the differences between the two versions were so self-evident, and they were not intended to be used side by side, anyway.
As I recall from Inglis Diamond, there are two reasons why "hybrid" pistols exist (i.e. having the slotted gripframe of the No. 1 pistol but the fixed rear sight of the No. 2 pistol):
- when the first Chinese contract was terminated due to inability to get the pistols delivered past the Japanese blockade, existing frames which were in the production pipeline for use on No. 1 pistols (and were thus already slotted for the shoulder stock) were diverted into production of No. 2 pistols.
- more commonly, that same situation also resulted in many completed No. 1 pistols being diverted to use by both Canadian and British troops. Quite a while after WWII, both Canada and Britain converted any No. 1 pistols remaining in their inventories to No. 2 specifications, by milling off the sightbase for the long-range sight, and replacing it with the standard No. 2-configuration non-adjustable rear sight. The slots in the gripframe were just left in place ....
Clive actually indicates that Canada had a policy of using the No. 1 pistols as "give-aways" during post-war aid programs (to Belgium, the Netherlands, and other countries), with a view to purging those pistols from its inventory. Thus by the time the above-mentioned conversion program took place (in the 1960's, IIRC) Canada actually had relatively few such pistols to convert.
Last year I acquired a rather nice example of a No. 1 pistol, actually bearing a Canadian Broadarrow on the left side of the slide (in addition to the same mark on the right side of the frame of all Inglis pistols) which is clearly one of the pistols given by Canada to Belgium as post-war aid ....
(Click thumbnails to enlarge ...)
(The shoulder stock shown is one of the reproductions ...)
All Inglis pistols were produced in 1944 and 1945 - ending in October of the latter year, so several months production - and many thousands of of both No. 1 and No. 2 pistols - are indeed "post-war" manufacture ... though they are indistinguishable from "wartime" production except by serial number.
The official "model designations" were "Pistol No. 1" (for the longrange-sighted/stock-slotted Chinese model ... CH numbered) and "Pistol No. 2" (for the fixed-rear sight, unslotted "Canadian" model ... T numbered), but the pistols themselves were not marked as "No. 1" and "No. 2". I presume that was because the differences between the two versions were so self-evident, and they were not intended to be used side by side, anyway.
As I recall from Inglis Diamond, there are two reasons why "hybrid" pistols exist (i.e. having the slotted gripframe of the No. 1 pistol but the fixed rear sight of the No. 2 pistol):
- when the first Chinese contract was terminated due to inability to get the pistols delivered past the Japanese blockade, existing frames which were in the production pipeline for use on No. 1 pistols (and were thus already slotted for the shoulder stock) were diverted into production of No. 2 pistols.
- more commonly, that same situation also resulted in many completed No. 1 pistols being diverted to use by both Canadian and British troops. Quite a while after WWII, both Canada and Britain converted any No. 1 pistols remaining in their inventories to No. 2 specifications, by milling off the sightbase for the long-range sight, and replacing it with the standard No. 2-configuration non-adjustable rear sight. The slots in the gripframe were just left in place ....
Clive actually indicates that Canada had a policy of using the No. 1 pistols as "give-aways" during post-war aid programs (to Belgium, the Netherlands, and other countries), with a view to purging those pistols from its inventory. Thus by the time the above-mentioned conversion program took place (in the 1960's, IIRC) Canada actually had relatively few such pistols to convert.
Last year I acquired a rather nice example of a No. 1 pistol, actually bearing a Canadian Broadarrow on the left side of the slide (in addition to the same mark on the right side of the frame of all Inglis pistols) which is clearly one of the pistols given by Canada to Belgium as post-war aid ....
(Click thumbnails to enlarge ...)
(The shoulder stock shown is one of the reproductions ...)
I love shooting mine with the stock on it really does improve my shooting BTW a few years back I had a chance to go into the lock up at the local armory to check out some Inglis pistols that they had still in grease in the box with completely intact decals etc and to my surprise one with the stock cutout on the grip frame another was a post war rebuild which had the Chinese tangent sight milled off and the rearsight replaced with the silver solder Canadian style just like in Clives book .
Not really into pistols all that much but I can tell you that all the ones I've seen still in the military are marked as Mk1* or Mk2. I believe the Mk1* are the converted pistols that guys have mentioned, although now that I think of it none of them have had the slot in the backstrap, yet all numbers match.
When I was in Afghan my issued pistol only had a 4 digit serial no. instead of the typical 6. Drove me nuts when the CQ guys kept asking me to confirm my serial no.
I've recently been thinking about getting an Inglis as a cheap beater/shooter, but the ones out there that I've seen are more for the collectors. Always wanted to tweak one to show the guys what it can really do. Most troops think that it's a piece of sh*t because of the age, plus I don't think that they've been overhauled in decades.
ETA: How many guys would love to get their hands on the brand spankin new, never used Inglis' that are sitting in warstock? I think some of these have come out recently for issue to the troops.
When I was in Afghan my issued pistol only had a 4 digit serial no. instead of the typical 6. Drove me nuts when the CQ guys kept asking me to confirm my serial no.
I've recently been thinking about getting an Inglis as a cheap beater/shooter, but the ones out there that I've seen are more for the collectors. Always wanted to tweak one to show the guys what it can really do. Most troops think that it's a piece of sh*t because of the age, plus I don't think that they've been overhauled in decades.
ETA: How many guys would love to get their hands on the brand spankin new, never used Inglis' that are sitting in warstock? I think some of these have come out recently for issue to the troops.
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
There were design changes to the mk1 slides (mk2 extractor and ejector) which gave the pistol the mk1* designation. The mk1* was applied to the slides from factory, since parts were not interchangeable between the mk1 and the mk1*.
The "no2" was not added to the slides of Cdn guns until 1947. Many of the Inglis pistols found in civilian hands don't have this mark, indicating they were either surplussed prior to 47, or else they were surplussed from Belgium or elsewhere, where they did not get the no2 added.
On in-service pistols, you will note the "No2" is usually shiney, while the mk1* is finished over, indicating it was done post-factory.
The "no2" was not added to the slides of Cdn guns until 1947. Many of the Inglis pistols found in civilian hands don't have this mark, indicating they were either surplussed prior to 47, or else they were surplussed from Belgium or elsewhere, where they did not get the no2 added.
On in-service pistols, you will note the "No2" is usually shiney, while the mk1* is finished over, indicating it was done post-factory.
There are still some pistols without the No2 stamped in. All of the ones where I work were recently replaced by refurbs (stamping not in the white) and the last one I had was still marked No1*. It had a II ejector on it but the hammer was not marked. It was a 9T pistol with a replacement one piece barrel.
Guys: don't confuse the "Number" designation (i.e. No. 1 Pistol or No. 2 Pistol - meaning either the "Chinese" or the "Canadian" configuration, respectively) with the "Mark" designation - which necessarily is either MK I or Mk I*
To the best of my knowledge, all standard military-issue Inglis pistols - whether of the No. 1 (Chinese) configuration or the No. 2 (Canadian) configuration - are either un-stamped as to any "Mark" designation (i.e. these are the Mark I version) .... or are stamped "Mk I*" (which signifies that the pistol incorporates certain improvements to the extractor and ejector, together with slight modifications to the machining of the slide to accomodate the redimensioned extractor.)
There wasn't ever a "MK II" (or "MK 2") version of the Inglis ....
To the best of my knowledge, all standard military-issue Inglis pistols - whether of the No. 1 (Chinese) configuration or the No. 2 (Canadian) configuration - are either un-stamped as to any "Mark" designation (i.e. these are the Mark I version) .... or are stamped "Mk I*" (which signifies that the pistol incorporates certain improvements to the extractor and ejector, together with slight modifications to the machining of the slide to accomodate the redimensioned extractor.)
There wasn't ever a "MK II" (or "MK 2") version of the Inglis ....
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I see they have a lanyard ring, was there an issued lanyard, or were they field made?
I scanned through other threads on the Inglis and it seems the original magazines can be problematic. Is it just old springs? Does anybody have a good source for new mags? ARGHHH! The mailman still hasn't brought my book!
I scanned through other threads on the Inglis and it seems the original magazines can be problematic. Is it just old springs? Does anybody have a good source for new mags? ARGHHH! The mailman still hasn't brought my book!
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Lanyards are in the supply system. My camera is down right now, but maybe I can post a pic of some of the variations later if someone else doesn't.
The WW2 army lanyard was yellowish in colour, looped on each end, and had a fancy woven ball on each end where the loops could slide.
The current issue one is just a US supplied style, with a snap hook at each end. There were also the earlier styles available in regimental colours, black, white, blue...just about any colour you could imagine.
Some Inglis mags seemed to have problems with the heat treating of the lips, resulting in bent lips and bad feeding. I likely have a dozen Inglis mags, and only had a problem with one of them, which I was able to bend back into a functional shape. Mags in DND use have been subject to 60 years of neglect and abuse...it only takes one guy opening his bottle of beer with a mag to ruin it for the next 100 guys who are issued it. And, if after a range qualification, the offending mags aren't quarantined, then the problem continues.
The DND is currently buying brand new FN made magazines as replacements.
The WW2 army lanyard was yellowish in colour, looped on each end, and had a fancy woven ball on each end where the loops could slide.
The current issue one is just a US supplied style, with a snap hook at each end. There were also the earlier styles available in regimental colours, black, white, blue...just about any colour you could imagine.
Some Inglis mags seemed to have problems with the heat treating of the lips, resulting in bent lips and bad feeding. I likely have a dozen Inglis mags, and only had a problem with one of them, which I was able to bend back into a functional shape. Mags in DND use have been subject to 60 years of neglect and abuse...it only takes one guy opening his bottle of beer with a mag to ruin it for the next 100 guys who are issued it. And, if after a range qualification, the offending mags aren't quarantined, then the problem continues.
The DND is currently buying brand new FN made magazines as replacements.
Oddbawl;
To the best of my knowledge, standard-issue Canadian or British revolver lanyards were used with the Inglis pistols in service with their forces during WWII and after ...
As I understand it, problems experienced with old original magazines are most likely the result of weakened springs, dirt and/or distortion of the feed lips. Thus, if you experience problems, those are "the most likely suspects" to investigate and (hopefully) correct. Perhaps I'm lucky, but of my four original John Inglis mags, I've only experienced problems with one of them. (It is the most recently acquired, one of the two mags which came with my recently acquired No. 1 pistol. As I have several mags available to me, I just use those and haven't even looked into correcting the problem ...)
To the best of my knowledge, standard-issue Canadian or British revolver lanyards were used with the Inglis pistols in service with their forces during WWII and after ...
As I understand it, problems experienced with old original magazines are most likely the result of weakened springs, dirt and/or distortion of the feed lips. Thus, if you experience problems, those are "the most likely suspects" to investigate and (hopefully) correct. Perhaps I'm lucky, but of my four original John Inglis mags, I've only experienced problems with one of them. (It is the most recently acquired, one of the two mags which came with my recently acquired No. 1 pistol. As I have several mags available to me, I just use those and haven't even looked into correcting the problem ...)
- Location
- WMU247 near Edmonton
In my experience it's bent feed lips that cause the majority of feed problems.
next time your on the range and have a feed problem with your issue BHP look at how the rounds sit in the mag. Compare them to your other mag, if it looks like the jam inducing mag roaund sit nose up compared to the good mag its a mag lip problem.
nose of the round is too high and catches when feeding.
another problem I've incountered is failure to eject but that was just a worn ejector.
Last time I went to the range the pistol they gave me was useless, shot out crap. 6 pistols and 3 different shooters for each pistol, no one using that pistol was able to qualify. even one guy that was trying to prove he was soooo much better then us, and it was not the pistols problem, he failed, and had to eat his words. Bugger still owes us beer too 
next time your on the range and have a feed problem with your issue
BHP look at how the rounds sit in the mag. Compare them to your other mag, if it looks like the jam inducing mag roaund sit nose up compared to the good mag its a mag lip problem.nose of the round is too high and catches when feeding.
another problem I've incountered is failure to eject but that was just a worn ejector.
Last time I went to the range the pistol they gave me was useless, shot out crap. 6 pistols and 3 different shooters for each pistol, no one using that pistol was able to qualify.
even one guy that was trying to prove he was soooo much better then us, and it was not the pistols problem, he failed, and had to eat his words. Bugger still owes us beer too
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
stencollector said:
That's a fact. I did a pistol qual shoot a few weeks ago, and we had two types of brand new magazines. Hardly any bluing worn off by the mag safeties. Both had the cartridge markings stamping vertically on the front surface, using European naming conventions, and one said Belgium and the numbers. The other differences were one had a flat flush floorplate button and other had a humped button.
They all worked immaculately, but we did break the vertical leg off one barrel ! First time I've ever seen that, but the training staff said it was common. I did notice it was not an original Inglis barrel but one with the serial number in a larger font.
