Inserts for 12 gauge shotguns..... a search for info

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Consults

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Just curiosity again, I used the short 410 insert a couple decades alone and I have heard of pistol caliber inserts and I see Briley has their Tube sets, on here I looked and it looked like the most recent comments were over a decade old so I thought rather than my usual rabbit hole chase I would ask...

What other inserts are there the people have heard of, tried or would recommend? (smaller gauges, pistol caliber, rifle caliber...)

I was curious about things like who made them, what is their accuracy like for pistol (rifle exists?) inserts, are they smoothbore or rifled.,, opinions, price used?

The short tube I had for the 12 gauge was a 410 and I used it sometimes but it wasn't much to talk about, it worked and at short range & was OK but other than maybe a big flock of starlings I wouldn't consider it a suitable for anything other than sending lead downrange.

For those interested in what actually looked good, Briley the tube sets...
https://www.briley.com/default.aspx
 
KePet said:
Not sure, but this might help.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/threads/8in-rifled-shotgun-adapters-are-back.2579740/

I ordered one but haven’t had a chance to try it out yet, so I can’t personally attest to how they work yet, or their accuracy
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Guess I used the wrong search words, I didn't see that one. Thanks. The ones I saw were from a decade ago +.
They look interesting though, what caliber did you get? The Briley full length tubes are what caught my eye in an ad and started me on a curious rabbit hole hunt.

Went to Duck.ai today to see what it said ...
Yes. Companies such as Chaszel and Short Lane make 12-gauge chamber adapters—or rifled insert adapters—for certain rifle and handgun cartridges. Examples may include:

  • .22 LR
  • .223 Remington/5.56 NATO
  • 7.62×39
  • .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO
  • 9mm and .45 Colt
Availability depends on the specific shotgun chamber, barrel length, cartridge, and adapter design. Many are short insert barrels intended for single-shot use rather than converting the shotgun into a practical rifle.

Don't know what it means by a "practical rifle", but thats what it said, guess it thinks target rifles etc aren't... some of the LLM not only hallucinate (some as much as 20-40%) but make statements based on someone's definition I just can't agree with.

So any other experiences other than the Chiappa's?
.
 
Consults said:
Guess I used the wrong search words, I didn't see that one. Thanks. The ones I saw were from a decade ago +.
They look interesting though, what caliber did you get? The Briley full length tubes are what caught my eye in an ad and started me on a curious rabbit hole hunt.

Went to Duck.ai today to see what it said ...
Yes. Companies such as Chaszel and Short Lane make 12-gauge chamber adapters—or rifled insert adapters—for certain rifle and handgun cartridges. Examples may include:

  • .22 LR
  • .223 Remington/5.56 NATO
  • 7.62×39
  • .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO
  • 9mm and .45 Colt
Availability depends on the specific shotgun chamber, barrel length, cartridge, and adapter design. Many are short insert barrels intended for single-shot use rather than converting the shotgun into a practical rifle.

Don't know what it means by a "practical rifle", but thats what it said, guess it thinks target rifles etc aren't... some of the LLM not only hallucinate (some as much as 20-40%) but make statements based on someone's definition I just can't agree with.

So any other experiences other than the Chiappa's?
.
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I had a couple Chaszel adapters.

Id recommend a well built shotgun. Like NEF/H&R SB2 frame.
 
Okay & Cat (and Smells) :whistle:

Any comments on the accuracy? At say 50 yds could you hit the barn, the barn door or the barn door's doorknob? :cool:

I had fun with the 410 insert and other than when there were huge flocks of starlings in a tree near the house... almost totally useless.

OkayShooter said:
I had a couple Chaszel adapters.

Id recommend a well built shotgun. Like NEF/H&R SB2 frame.
Click to expand...

I am keeping one of either the Stoeger Uplander or CZ Mallard, they should be good I think.
 
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I only used a .44 mag one in my single shot Cooey at 25 yards and wasnt to impressed with the accuracy. Next time I go to the range Im bringing a big piece of cardboard and see where its shooting . I will bring the .32 also as Ive never fired it.
 
Consults said:
Okay & Cat (and Smells) :whistle:

Any comments on the accuracy? At say 50 yds could you hit the barn, the barn door or the barn door's doorknob? :cool:

I had fun with the 410 insert and other than when there were huge flocks of starlings in a tree near the house... almost totally useless.



I am keeping one of either the Stoeger Uplander or CZ Mallard, they should be good I think.
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They work super on the skeet field and on birds out to 30 yards , I've never tried them at 50.
Cat
 
Consults said:
Any comments on the accuracy? At say 50 yds could you hit the barn, the barn door or the barn door's doorknob? :cool:
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We tested our Chiappa 12ga to 9mm inserts at 50yds a few years ago, before starting to sell them.

8in gong at 50yds was pretty doable. 3/4 silhouette was easy at 50yds. 6in gong at 25yds is easy work. With a bead sight.

In regards to the barn analogy, I'm pretty sure I could hit a barn consistently at 100-150yds with a bead sight after figuring out how high I have to hold. lol. Never tried to run one on a scoped break action to actually test what MOA they print at though. Would be a fun exercise.

I'd say at any distance where a 9mm handgun would be typically accepted as a good tool, these Chiappa pistol cal adapters will also do the job. Small game, targets, etc.

They have a cutout that you can clock to the same position every time you use it, so they are capable of being pretty consistent.

We have lots of 9mm ones on hand now and have a restock coming soon with .40, .45acp, 357 mag/38 spec, and 45LC/410. All the ones we regularly stock are for 12ga shotguns but we can order in the ones for 20ga shotguns as well.


Edit:
A quick note on accuracy as well, since that seems to be a concern. Different brands make different lengths of adapters. Generally the shortest adapter I would suggest if accuracy or hunting is a priority, is the 8in ones. We like this length because they fit in everything from the Sulun 9in barrel 12ga shotguns up to whatever old break action bird gun you may have kicking around. And accuracy is quite good.

We also sell short ones, but those are designed to be small and light more than accurate. They are intended for bug out bag/last ditch close up use, or plinking.
 
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In the... what were they thinking.... sort of an "insert" as I sat down this afternoon and went off on a strange inserts direction.


"airgun" inserts that are supposed to work in regular shotguns... BIG PASS but interesting and she was having fun :cool:



P.S.
Parts
Thanks, I remember the 410 was probably about 8" and the pattern was... well you would hit the door at 25 but by 50 .... luck if you did. Hence wondering about their usefulness.

I didn't want to open up a new topic on the "air shotgun" but thought some might find it interesting. Apparently you can change the front attachment to various pistol caliber pellets. The company seems to have started out as supplying high caliber pellets then expanded into the shotgun "inserts"? that had a front piece with various sizes.

Do the 8" (or longer ones you stock) come in .22?
 
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I got a 9mm just to try out. Let’s be honest here, you’re shooting a 9mm out of an 8” barrel, inside a 12 gauge barrel, with a bead sight - how much accuracy can you get, or really expect. I guess if you had a 12 gauge single with rifle sights or a rail for a red dot you could probably get more out of it for accuracy, but I’m not expecting head shots on squirrels at 100 yards.
 
Locked out said:
I emailed Chazsel recently and they said no more shipping across the border to us . Rather disappointing
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We can get Chazsel stuff. It's expensive if we are only getting one item, but if we have a bunch of stuff people want, it will be more reasonable. Anyone reading this who is interested can send a PM.
 
The yt content creator tinker talks guns converted a .410 break action shotgun to .22 Hornet. He left the oversized shotgun firing pin in place. While test firing it the firing pin blew out and hit him above his eye, drawing blood iirc. Sometimes the firing pin has to be bushed to avoid this type of nasty failure mode. The dude could have been blinded.
 
KePet said:
I got a 9mm just to try out. Let’s be honest here, you’re shooting a 9mm out of an 8” barrel, inside a 12 gauge barrel, with a bead sight - how much accuracy can you get, or really expect. I guess if you had a 12 gauge single with rifle sights or a rail for a red dot you could probably get more out of it for accuracy, but I’m not expecting head shots on squirrels at 100 yards.
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The question of the accuracy is why I asked, to me it looks like a solution to a problem that was better solved another way. A Henry Survivor for that squirrel is likely much better. I tend to wonder what people have done, tried, modified etc, history has alot of things out there like artillery in planes or scout planes with bazookas ht tps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gulkT-aeYs8 that definitely weren't in the "manual"!

The Briley was what got me thinking and it is intended for competitive shooters wanting to keep the same firearm for different caliber competitions and that made sense I wouldn't likely use it if you asked and had no interest after my experience with the 410 BUT upon thinking about it having a drop in tube for that grouse or squirrel could be handy, or the other way, and instead of the $2000 double barrel rifle a Stoeger Uplander or other side by side or over under etc you can have as a 357 or 44 mag and use it at 50 or MAYBE 100 yds (IF it could hit a softball size target at 100 yards) then pull out for the grouse or turkey or rabbit and it could be useful.. maybe. Hence asking, the dumb question is the one not asked.

I was wondering what people had tried, found useful, enjoyed, hate and there are alot of seasons overlap and a tube (or two) and box of 10 rds would take up little space in a backpack and might reduce that paper taste in the fall soups. :p


F.T.
Well there's an example of someone that tried something and hopefully learned... lucky "tinker talks guns" wasn't severely injured or even dead. Magnum loads on any of these adapters would likely increase your odds of "problematic" situations on any of these! Depending on the idea there are already solutions out there like Intersurplus has combination firearms and each barrel is intended for that caliber... ex 6.5x55 and 12guage BRNO.
ht tps://intersurplus.com/collections/6-5-x-55/products/brno-502-5-in-12ga-6-5x55-sku-22853

BUT again, it is always interesting to see what can, was, shouldn't have etc been done.:cool:
 
If you look over the more traditional German style sub caliber adapters, you sometimes see the adapter is longer than the shotgun barrel and is threaded for a barrel nut at the muzzle. The more universal adapters just have one or two o rings to help centre it. Which is better, vs. logistics i suppose is the reason for the o - ring units.
 
fat tony said:
If you look over the more traditional German style sub caliber adapters, you sometimes see the adapter is longer than the shotgun barrel and is threaded for a barrel nut at the muzzle. The more universal adapters just have one or two o rings to help centre it. Which is better, vs. logistics i suppose is the reason for the o - ring units.
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Thanks
Learning more... putting the duck.ai search to use again... duck.ai Information should be shared... not like the Liberals C-8, C-9, C-22 and C-34!

SO...
ME
What are and who makes some traditional German style sub caliber adapters for shotgun or even rifles
Duck.ai
The traditional German term is Einstecklauf—literally “insert barrel.” In English, you’ll also see sub-caliber insert, reducer barrel, or shotgun-to-rifle insert.
These are usually made for break-action guns—drillings, vierlings, combination guns, and side-by-side or over-under shotguns. They are not generally universal adapters: they must match the gun’s chamber, bore, extractor, locking arrangement, and sometimes its rib or sighting system.

Traditional German-style makers and sources​

  • Krieghoff — Probably the best-known traditional source, particularly for short rimfire insert barrels used in drillings. Common examples include inserts for .22 LR and .22 WMR, and historically some centerfire versions. Krieghoff inserts are often adjustable for point of impact and may be fitted with an insertion/removal key. classicsportingguns.com1
  • Blaser — Has produced and supported various Einstecklauf systems for combination guns and drillings, especially guns using the Blaser/Suhl-style modular system. Availability depends heavily on the specific firearm model and market.
  • K&S Waffen — A German specialist associated with custom Einsteckläufe, especially for drillings, combination guns, and unusual chamberings. They are often a good avenue when a factory insert is no longer available.
  • Krieghoff, Sauer, Merkel, and Heym — These firms have historically offered combination guns and drillings for which factory or gunsmith-fitted insert barrels were available. Some are encountered today as used or discontinued accessories rather than current catalog products.
  • Neumann / Triebel-type German gunsmith specialists — German firearms workshops and specialist gunsmiths commonly make bespoke insert barrels to fit a particular drilling or combination gun. Many traditional pieces found on the used market are actually custom-fitted rather than standardized products.

Common forms​

TypeTypical useNotes
Short rimfire insert.22 LR or .22 WMR in a shotgun barrelCompact, light, and common in older drillings
Full-length rimfire insert.22 LR, .22 WMR, occasionally .17 HMRBetter sighting and often more consistent alignment
Centerfire insert.22 Hornet, .222 Rem., 5.6x50R, 6.5x52R, etc.Requires careful pressure, chamber, and extraction matching
Shotgun reducer insertSmaller shotgun gauge inside a larger boreMust be compatible with the host barrel and intended ammunition
Rifle-to-rifle insertA smaller cartridge inside a rifle barrelLess common and generally custom-made
Combination-gun insertInsert fitted to a drilling or BBF barrelOften includes adjustable locking or elevation features
The older German designs often use a thin rifled tube with a chamber at the rear, retained by a spring, lug, collar, or adjustable mechanism. Some have their own extractor and firing-pin arrangement; others rely on the host gun’s firing pin. Short inserts can be surprisingly accurate, but their point of impact must be checked in the actual firearm.
For searching, use terms such as:
  • `Einstecklauf Drilling
  • `Einstecklauf Schrotflinte
  • Reduzierlauf 12/70 auf .22
  • `Krieghoff Einstecklauf
  • Einstecklauf .22 WMR
  • Einstecklauf Büchse
  • Einschublauf or Einsteckbüchse
A key distinction: Einstecklauf usually means a rifled insert intended for a shotgun or combination gun, while Reduzierlauf may refer more broadly to a reducer or chamber insert. For a vintage German drilling, the safest route is to identify the gun’s maker, model, gauge, chamber length, bore diameter, extractor type, and firing-pin arrangement before looking for an insert. A qualified gunsmith should verify any candidate, especially with centerfire cartridges.
 
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