Interesting German Capture 91/30

[fugawi]

It's mazing the "units" that received arms in Nazi Germany. For example, post office workers were largely armed, as were railway workers. Late in the war, many of these services were conscripted into the volkstuurm and expected to fight alongside the Wehrmacht near the bitter end.

So were these issued only to ethnic Germans in Latvia sort of like a Latvian volkstuurm or was this issued to ethnic Latvian fire fighting units as per 3rd Reich decree? Did it exists only as an organization during German occupation or was it in existence prior to the Soviet occupation when Latvia was independent? It would seem that since Mi. is German for Mitau that this could be a Nazi mark.

Mitau: German name for Jelgava, became the residence of the dukes of Courland; it passed to Russia with the duchy in 1795. German troops held Jelgava during World War I. In 1919, during the struggle for Latvian independence, the city was occupied in turn by Soviet forces, by German free corps, and by the Latvians. Part of independent Latvia from 1920 to 1940, Jelgava was then seized by the USSR, held by the Germans from 1941 to 1944, and taken by Soviet troops.

 

[Claven2]

I think it could have been issued to either a Latvian or a German - who knows? Certainly it received that marking while the Third Reich was in existence.

 

[smellie]

Few points to remember.

People today get so caught up in the Heroic Defence Of The Soviet Motherland Against The Invading Fascist Monsters that they lose sight of the fact that Russia has, over the last several centuries, almost always been the invader rather than the invaded. This historical process continues to this day, if you examine things carefully enough.

The "X" marking on captured equipment was actually crossed Moisin-Nagant rifles, if you look at it carefully. I have it on a Luger here. It was applied to captured equipment which entered Soviet Service.

Latvia was an independent country from 1918 to 1940, having spent some centuries previous as an occupied country. In the late Middle Ages Latvia was an important and powerful country. It descends from the Hanseatic League states and the people are to a great extent descended from German settlers, many of whom moved in in pre-Hanseatic times and stayed.

The Soviet Union 'protected' Latvia in 1940 by the simple expedient of invading it and turning it into another state in the Soviet system. When the Germans invaded in 1941, they were regarded a liberators in Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia as well as in modern Moldova, Belarus and Ukraine. In Ukraine, the Germans discovered entire towns where the people spoke a better grade of German than the German invaders. Relations between the German occupying authorities an the locals often were much better than generally supposed, especially in the Baltic States which shared MUCH common history and culture with Germany, very little indeed with Russia.

I think the logical chain with regard to this rifle would be:

built for Soviet service

captured by the Nasties

given to Fire Service in Mittau (old spelling of Mitau)

recaptured by Sovs when they pushed back through the Baltic States and put into Soviet service once again

factory refurbed by Soviets

surplused

When the Sovs retook the poor Baltic States, they embarked on a planned program of Russification, including massive involuntary population transfers, which accounts for the minorities of ethnic Russians living in these countries today. Before 1940 they were true National States for the Latvian, Lithuanian and Estonian people who descended from Hanseatic Germans.

This is not all old history from books. Look at a map some time. The "Russian" city of Kaliningrad was created post-1945 by evicting all the Germans and replacing them with ethnic Russians. I'll betcha anything you like that the local newspaper no longer uses Fraktur type and no longer calls itself the "Konigsberger Zeitung" as once it did. Yes, this is the Imperial German city of Konigsberg, for which the famed warships were named.

.

 

[skirsons]

When the Sovs retook the poor Baltic States, they embarked on a planned program of Russification, including massive involuntary population transfers, which accounts for the minorities of ethnic Russians living in these countries today. Before 1940 they were true National States for the Latvian, Lithuanian and Estonian people who descended from Hanseatic Germans.

Just a small point not related to the discussion. Estonians are Finno-Ugric, and the Latvians are an ancient Indo-European people with one of the oldest languages in Europe. Riga was part of the Hanseatic League but the Latvians are way older than the ethnic Germans who arrived in the 1200s.

 

[skirsons]

I think it could have been issued to either a Latvian or a German - who knows? Certainly it received that marking while the Third Reich was in existence.

It's hard to say but I would imagine that imported Germans at least in Latvia would be brought for more important duties. There wasn't massive resettlement of ethnic Germans for its own sake in Latvia.