Interesting Winchester P14

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bros

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Just acquired a very nice interesting matching (although missing the original rear sight) Winchester P14. The rifle came to me from a fellow who's father was in the Canadian Navy during WW2 and stationed in Bermuda, they were hunting German U boats. He told me it was his fathers rifle in the war....I'm not sure if that adds up as this rifle bears no C broad arrow marks, anyhow it doesn't really matter.
Rifle has a rear sight made by Parker Hale I believe it is the 5B. On the elevation scale it is marked "MARK VII" obviously calibrated for the Service Mark VII ball ammunition and also marked "PATT 14". The rifle has a very nice relatively rare WW2 replacement stock made by H.Morris Co. of Glasglow. It is stamped on the right side of the butt "No3 MKII" the only other stamp is underneath, very near the front of the fore-end and it is stamped "N49". These replacement stocks made by H. Morris had no provision for the front volley sight so non-existent.
Upon examining the rifle after it was shipped to me I noticed that the crown of the muzzle is stamped "AGP BALL-BURNISHED"......interesting that the barrel went thru that process as well. I checked the barrel date under the rear hand guard and it is dated '17.
My question is would this ball burnishing process have been completed while this rifle was in service, did other rifles get ball burnished while in service? If so what's the story behind that? Was AGP primarily a contractor for the government or would it do work for the private individual as well?
I can't wait to range test this rifle.....the bore looks minty after a good scrub!!
Thanks for your input.
Regards.

Note: sorry for those who may have read this thread already on another site but I had a very limited response.....figured I would try and post it here!
 
As I recall reading, Alfred G. Parker ran a gun shop business near the Bisley ranges - he made fine target sights and accurized target rifles. I have an AGP Sportarget on a Mauser and a 5C on a Lee Enfield #4. I would be inclined to think the "ball burnish" and the Parker rear sight went together as an accurizing for a target shooting rifle. I have not read of Alfred Parker being sub-contractor to the British or any other military, but it wouldn't surprise me if he might have worked with their target shooting teams.
 
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There was a P14 "Sniper" at the Chilliwack show over the weekend. Very nice piece and kinda sounds similarly configured as yours. Wish I took a pic.
 
Potashminer said:
As I recall reading, Alfred G. Parker ran a gun shop business near the Bisley ranges - he made fine target sights and accurized target rifles. I have an AGP Sportarget on a Mauser and a 5C on a Lee Enfield #4. I would be inclined to think the "ball burnish" and the Parker rear sight went together as an accurizing for a target shooting rifle. I have not read of Alfred Parker being sub-contractor to the British or any other military, but it wouldn't surprise me if he might have worked with their target shooting teams.
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Thanks for the informative post Potashminer!!
 
SteelFlint said:
There was a P14 "Sniper" at the Chilliwack show over the weekend. Very nice piece and kinda sounds similarly configured as yours. Wish I took a pic.
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Check this site for your picture...I think it may have been one of Colin's you saw at the show...... www.captainstevens.com then check under "Militaria For Sale & Wanted".
Interestingly the same website has a photograph of a sniper training with a P14 equipped with what appears to be a Parker Hale sight....to see scroll down until you get to "Canadian Snipers in WWII" then 3 rows down you will see the picture in the middle.
 
Hi bros. Alfred Parker did ball burnishing (when paid for) on barrels which eliminating the metallic fouling on the lands but didn't touch the grooves. As the No.4 rifle was not available for target use for quite some time after WW2 the government made the P-14 rifle available to certain smiths for commercial sale. The shop at Bisley was G.E. Fultons and is probably still there (as is Canada House which is only in namesake). The 5B Parker Hale sight was designed for the P-14 which necessitated the removal of the service sight. Often rifles were target bedded (when paid for)to the patented designs of the shop. So you have a rifle that was released from service and went thru Parkers shop at some time. Most U.K. target shooters used a rifle that went thru one of these 2 family run companies. JOHN
 
I've got to get a copy of Skennerton's book "The US Enfield". I think that is basically the encyclopedia for the P13, P14 and the US M1917. I believe AGP and Parker Hale were top notch in their respective fields, I was just admiring the quality of the 5B sight that is on this P14. I think this rifle between rear sight and barrel should be a real good shooter...I hope I'm up to the task.
Thanks for all the helpful information!!
 
bros said:
I've got to get a copy of Skennerton's book "The US Enfield". I think that is basically the encyclopedia for the P13, P14 and the US M1917. I believe AGP and Parker Hale were top notch in their respective fields, I was just admiring the quality of the 5B sight that is on this P14. I think this rifle between rear sight and barrel should be a real good shooter...I hope I'm up to the task.
Thanks for all the helpful information!!
Click to expand...

The sight bridge comes off by depressing the knob, whch disengages the threads on the elevation screw. It is standard procedure to remove the sight when leaving the range. If you levae it on, it can get hit and bent.

The elevation vernier can be set to zero. You can set it to read 300 yards when zeroed at 300 yards, Then when starting shooting at 300 (or any other distance) just install the sight and set ti to the appropriate distance.

Most of us ignore the range table and just set the vernier to read 10 minutes at 100 yards, and made a note of the correct elevation for each distance.
 
As mentioned the P14 was competitive against the No.1 and No.4, but as more and more of the latter were surplused the shooters adapted and began to beat the P14s. Just a fact on the adaptability of good shooters and the tolerances within the No.4. That back sight is a gem of machining! They all are.

As mentioned 'ball burnishing' was a trick to forcefully drag an oiled hard steel ball breech to muzzle in hopes of smoothing the rough spots from wartime urgent manufacturing. It was a necessity for No.4s, not so sure for P14s. Your rifle was already an also ran by the 1960s when the original NRA and the DCRA changed cartridges to 7.62. It was a whole new game and the arms race has never stopped.
 
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