IPSC Ethic DQ Rules...

MysticMartin

MysticMartin

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 98.2%
56   1   0
Location
Laurentides, Québec
I'm trying to understand de DQ Ethic... let me expose the situation:

This was an level 3 match.

The RO saw the gun without safe in holster, didn't stop nothing. let the shooter shoot, they score and signed the score sheet...
After he talk with CRO... the CRO DQ the shooter...

I'm disappointed of that situation, didn't found anything in the Rules Book to reverse the decision... I talk to other RO around and the majority was against the decision to DQ after the score sheet was signed, after the stage was done...

If I'm doing the RO... not sure about something, (I personally don't stop the shooter for DQ... only when 100% certain...) but if I talk to CRO or other RO to understand better the rules... and found out that my past shooter was DQ... I'll not go see him to DQ him after... This is not respectful!
I will take my responsibility of my mistake, that I didn't stop... and I'm going to inform the shooter of the situation for learning purpose but will not DQ him.

Do you have an opinion on this situation to share?

Do you know how I could fight this related to IPSC Rules Book?

Do you have any idea what I should do next time... wishing this will never happen again... but it's always good to know!
 
Last edited:
Salut Martin, mon opinion est qu'une violation d'une règle de sécurité n'a rien à voir avec le score. Que la feuille soit signée ou non, un tireur doit être informé de la situation dans un délai raisonnable.
 
MysticMartin said:
The RO saw the gun without safe in holster!
Click to expand...
Sounds like two screw-ups - a shooter with an unsafe gun and an RO who should have stopped the situation as soon as he saw it.

The mistake by the official does not erase the unsafe behavior of the shooter; so a DQ will stand regardless.
What did the RM say when he was called to the DQ?

Next time? Make sure the shooter handles his guns safely.
 
The RM stay with the unsafe behaviour... but my point is not to judge... if it's was unsafe... the question is the timeframe... shooter wasn't stop during the stage... why DQ after???

Don't come back because this wasn't safe... come-on... should I go to all mistakes I did to DQ them today...

The point here is not the safety, I understand safety and everything around... but the DQ was call after the stage... no safety involved at that time... Should the RO been DQ also???
 
MysticMartin said:
The RM stay with the unsafe behaviour... but my point is not to judge... if it's was unsafe... the question is the timeframe... shooter wasn't stop during the stage... why DQ after???

Don't come back because this wasn't safe... come-on... should I go to all mistakes I did to DQ them today...

The point here is not the safety, I understand safety and everything around... but the DQ was call after the stage... no safety involved at that time... Should the RO been DQ also???
Click to expand...
As I said, if everything happened as you stated, the RO screwed up and should have DQed him immediately. I'm sure the RM told him that afterwards.
 
Yes everything was done properly after... but still looking for the answer of the delay... to me, DQ is when the safety occur... not after a stage or after reflexion and questioning others...

Just try to find a rules... or something that cover the delay!

To me, DQ should be immediately without delay! This is my point of view of common sens, but still looking for rules or opinion on the delay!
 
Thanks!

cheers.gif


Out of this thread purpose, do you know a way to improved the battery connection for the C-More RTS?

Because that was the raison why the safety was off or partially off, the red dot wasn't present and the shooter had to knock the RTS, etc...
 
MysticMartin said:
Thanks!

cheers.gif


Out of this thread purpose, do you know a way to improved the battery connection for the C-More RTS?

Because that was the raison why the safety was off or partially off, the red dot wasn't present and the shooter had to knock the RTS, etc...
Click to expand...
Last year and into this year, there were at least 3 different versions of RTSs as C-more worked through issues like that.
It kept getting better and the version now are pretty bulletproof.
Best suggestion I can give is to send the sight back to C-more and they'll fix it with any updates that are in the newer versions.
 
To the OP.
I have seen the basic idea that you describe -not the infraction but the concept that many people believe that once the score sheet is signed the shooter is magically absolved of any wrong doing during the coarse of fire.
I have yet to see where this idea is supported within the rule book.
For scoring, yes, fair enough.
But for safety, no.
Until the match concludes the full effect of the rule book is in force.
Many RO's are new and/or are very inexperienced and are as overloaded with information as a new shooter trying to get their black badge pin...
But this is why we have multiple RO's and CRO's & RM's.
I will not condone the mistake of the RO in allowing the shooter to shoot the stage but I believe he knew something was wrong- he did do something right by the sounds of it by asking for the help (I assume this is what happened) of a CRO/RM.
We mentor new shooters but I do not believe we mentor RO's enough- new or old...
In this instance I also do not know why the RO did not suggest that the shooter apply the safety prior to holstering the firearm...
Rule 8.6.1 clearly states that an RO may issue a safety warning prior to the competitor breaking the rule (in this case holstering the loaded gun).
For some reason most people I have shot with utterly believe that the shooter is completely on their own during the coarse of fire...
And if the RO didn't notice the safety off prior to holstering I would suggest he/she is a timer holder....
 
I understand your point about safety, and it's no game about safety... I'm a safety freak ;)

But I don't understand the time frame of DQing someone for safety... could I DQ someone after 30 min. after I did talk to an other RO... an found out my mistake???
The safety issue is not their anymore... But like you said, I'd like to see something clear in the rule book.

I don't judge the RO mistake, I did mistake myself and I might do again... that's why I often ask CRO or RO to observe my work... need feedback to improve... and I understand your point mentoring RO... this could be done more, but it's always related to availabilities of volontaire...
 
A DQ can be issued after the fact, prior to match being over... Question I would of asked the RO is, Can you prove to me safety wasn't on ?
If you pointed it out on the spot, I could of looked down to see it, unholstered and pointed down range to see if it's on or not, if not on,, then unload and get DQ'd... if it was on, I could of resumed, but if he let him shoot, what if it really was up, but looked like it wasn't ?
I would of argued there's no proof now...but I'm not sure if RO word that he for sure saw that is enough ??

Re: RO shouldn't of let him holster with safety not on, well, some people load and make ready pretty quick and may not have had time... and not noticed it till after he holstered...

to the shooter who got DQ'd, soon as you load your first round, put safety on then, not after you put in full mag, etc.... Get into a good habit.

Though I'm giving example of possible argument above, end of the day, if too may warnings are given, shooters will not think "oh ####" "Doh" and try to better their habits for safety.
 
Is that mean that I have to DQ shooter when I found out my mistake by talking to other RO before the match is over?
I don't see nothing in the rule book about it?

As per my discussion with other RO, they don't know that you can/have to DQ after the fact happen!

The shooter in question had a solid and good habit... but the shooter had problem with C-More...

Cool, I'm a real men because I love my HK45 ;)
 
If this is the DQ I think it was, the RO was under the (mis)understanding that the infraction was either a warning/procedural and it was after the COF was finished, when consulting with the CRO the seriousness of the situation came to light. Unfortunately not all RO's know every single rule and sometimes these things do happen after the fact but at the end of the day, it is a DQ.
 
As per my understanding, if I can DQ someone after the COF is finish, than I can DQ someone in the afternoon after I talk to CRO during lunch for a mistake I did when ROing someone in the morning... and I didn't DQ the shooter on the spot!

To me, sounds strange and unfair, and feel more if I have to do so, that I do "POWERTRIP" and not my job of RO... but this is my personal reading of it!!!

I don't feel this is professional and with ethic...

I'm still searching for any information regarding the time frame of DQing someone... don't find anything yet in the Rule Book!
 
Were it me I'd say after one hour, no DQ, just like a third party arb, or any arb, there is a one hour window to submit an arb after an event has occurred. So DQ'ing someone in the afternoon for something that happened hours earlier wouldn't fly. But doing it at the end of a run is totally acceptable. Even if the shooter has signed his score sheet.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom