Is 270WSM/7WSM too much for F-Class rifle

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AlexF

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I have recently starting shooting a 270 WSM (165gr VLD at 2900ft/s) and am seriously questioning the sanity of using 270 WSM / 7 WSM class cartridge as a target round.
I'm having second thoughts and think that I should have gone for a moderate 6.5 cartridge instead.
The recoil is not abusive but it is strong enough that my accuracy drops as I shoot.
I might be getting older but I'm hoping that I'm just noticing inaccuracy more as I'm getting to be better shooter ;)

Alex
 
If the rifle is already heavy, then you might consider getting into a smaller round. Given that you already have a magnum short action, you could always rebarrel to something in WSSM.
 
Since you would be in F-open anyway, I would do my best to take advantage of that 22lb rifle only weight limit and use a pedestal rest...
 
The reality is, a short magnum is a cartridge with poor barrel life. If using VLD bullets, you need to load every 30-50 bullets a little bit longer than the next because your throat goes THAT fast. If you cvan get to 750 F-class accurate rounds with these bullets in that case, you are doing well.

I would suggest that you are gonna have the stuffing beaten out of you if you are shooting a light rifle prone.

I would think about throttling back to using a 284 case with either of these two bullets. I am going a 6.8 (270) 284 to use the excellent Matrix 175 bullets.

6.5's, particularly the Berger 140's are fantastic. If you point them, they are as good as the Berger 7mm 180. A 260 or 260 AI, even a 6.5X55 is a great large-capacity case with good velocity, reasnoable barrel life (twice the 7wsm at least) and all the attributes need to be competitive at short and long range. The 6.5-284 has an impressive pedigree, but its barel life is not much better than what you are using now.

I stick with a 6BR up to 600 and shoot something bigger after that.
 
I don't quite agree with Obtunded on this one. if you want to win you have to pay. typically that means shorter barrel life for higher scores. As an FYI the British won the last world championships shooting a 7mm/300wsm at approx 3150fps barrel life was short and they had to clean almost every relay and certainly ever day. and rumour is that the USA team for 2013 will be shooting a 7mm RSAUM or varation of...time will tell.

As to your gun at 13.5 it is light for F Open and you can easily bump that to 21 pounds and have better recoil management and accuracy with a front rest. Bipods are considered part of the weight of the rifle and do not track as well as a front rest set up. (Danny Biggs excluded)

Here is some more food for thought a lot of open guys are building 2 rifles one for short distance out to 600 and a 7mm loudandboomer for long range because of the barrel life issues Obtunded indicated. so you have an option to build a 2nd gun a 6mm or 6.5 offering then have your 7WSM for long range.

If nothing else get the weight up on your current rifle and your shooting will be much more enjoyable.


good luck
Trevor
 
You don't go to a top fuel dragster race and worry about gas mileage. And forget about doing it on the cheap.

LR F Open is now the realm of the "Bring money, and a Chiropractor" chamberings. It's all about cheating the wind and there is not much a small cal can do to keep up with a big cal.

If you push a small cal fast enough to match the drift, bore life is even WORSE.

Reducing wind drift is directly related to increased cost and recoil. Ain't no free lunch here.

So if you want to play in the deep end of the pool, budget for 1000rds of barrel lifespan and set up your action with several barrels so you can swap them out without down time.

Go into a match with a bore no more then 500rds old. Better yet 100rds.

I hear some international teams get a bundle of barrels before the season and shoot them all out before the end.

Recoil and your ability to manage it has become critical. Some can, many will not.

I have moved from F Open (6.5 Mystic/260 Improved 140gr Bergers) to FTR (223-90gr Bergers) to get away from the 'arms' race.

Besides, my shoulder will not last 1 relay let alone an entire weekend shooting the boomers.

I am somewhere around 1500rds in this barrel and I think I am 1/3 to 1/2 through its lifespan. My shoulder and wallet are all smiles these days.

YMMV.

Jerry
 
Thanks for the feedback, I was seriously wondering if I was getting soft or if there was a recoil issue!
I'll shot my rifle until the barrel is finished and will think seriously about the next step. In the meantime, I might buy a 223 Rem just to see...

Alex
 
Your gun is way too light to be shooting that caliber in F Class. You are permitted 22 lbs total weight of gun and attachments. Why not add 8 lbs of weight then try shooting it.

I shoot a 7mm300wsm in F class competition. My gun weighs in at 20.6 lbs. Yes, I can still feel the recoil but I'm sure it's nowhere near as bad as you are experiencing. I also set up my rear bag to absorb some of the recoil. On the whole it's entirely manageable, not as pleasant as a .223 but I play to win so I deal with it.
 
AlexF said:
My complete rifle is 13.5lbs but I might get an heavier bipod!
I planned for dual-use F-Class/Long-range hunting rifle but might have been overly optimistic and somewhat naive.
Click to expand...

You can't compete effectively with a dual use rifle against single purpose ones.

NormB
 
There are two types of F-Class shooters.... those national and international types that show up and want to win, and will do everything they can to do so, and those that do well, but haven't the time, means or desire to play "follow the leader". There are also F-Class matches shot at 900M/1000yrds, and those that are shot at 300 - 600. You do not need a magnum to compete at 300. Very few magnums will beat a well tuned 6BR on that .4 MOA short range target, I don't care what bullet or how heavy they are.

Marc Thibault is one of the finest mirage readers I know. He has a natural ability. He shot the WCFCC using a 260, and finished 2nd, but had the highest V-Count, The winner was not using a magnum either. Marc also cleaned house at the BC Provincials using the same gun. He was in a class by himself.

I am not a firm believer in the notion that you need to go with the biggest gawdammed bullet and case to win a match.

You need a shooter that knows how to make HIS loads work for HIM.

Bad wind calls happen with every caliber, but I think time and money would be better spent mastering one set-up, whether it is a 223 or a 300 Weatheryby shooting 240 grain bullets.

I would be thrilled if F-Class (O) were split into 6.5mm and smaller and over 6.5. I would bet my shoes that the smaller class would do at least as well as the larger classes.
 
Obtunded said:
Very few magnums will beat a well tuned 6BR on that .4 MOA short range target, I don't care what bullet or how heavy they are.

I am not a firm believer in the notion that you need to go with the biggest gawdammed bullet and case to win a match.


I would be thrilled if F-Class (O) were split into 6.5mm and smaller and over 6.5. I would bet my shoes that the smaller class would do at least as well as the larger classes.
Click to expand...

What kind of shoes are you putting up for this bet? I may be interested in taking your wager.

There has been an almost wholesale conversion to the 7mm bullets among the Open shooters in Mb. Many have ditched 6mm or 6.5mm bullets to go bigger. Most seem to be switching to a .284 Shehane although I don't know why.

I do have to agree with Ian that the magnums are not the gun to use at close range. I have found that my magnum underperforms inside 600yds. The recoil makes it hard to keep in that miniscule v bull at 300. I am invariably outshot at 300 by the guys using 6BR's. It's only when you get out past 800 yds when the magnum 7mm's really start to shine. At those ranges the ballistics more than make up for the recoil. It may sound stupid since the V bull is the same relative size all the way back, but I find the V bull on the long range target to be much more forgiving to my magnum. My scores go up the farther back I get.

While I will not give up my magnum for the long ranges I have built a 6 BR just for the close ranges 300, 500 and 600 for the very reasons Ian set out.

Ian is also correct in saying that reading the wind is more important than anything else. If you cannot read the wind it does not matter how fast or slick your bullet is.
 
Where the big slick bullets have an advantage is they move smaller distances by the wind.

If all you did was aim dead center (at long distance) with every shot. the guy with the 7mm 180 grain VLD bullet will beat a guy with a 6B doing the same thing since his bullet will move less. The 7mm guy still needs to correct for changes, and the 6mm guy will need to move more, but if he is accurate in his wind/mirage calls he's got her beat.

The guy that knows his 6mm BR better than the 7mm shooter knows his rig is likely going to win.

Oh and Les, I will wager a black shiny pair of Danners with a small scrote puke stain on them
 
Funny thing happened on a windy day at the 2010 Farky. The "big" 6.5's topped the list at 2X300m and 1X500m.

All the 6BR's were at the bottom. Ian, I am sure you know the ones....

Yes, the birds were walking.

Next day, things calmed down and the 6BR's DID score better at 500m but couldn't catch up.

Top 3 spots: 1st 260Rem (Mark T), 2nd 260 Improved (Me), 3rd 6.5 Mystic shooting my backup rifle by a 1st time competitor.

Shooters spend a small fortune on gear and shoulder for improved ballistics.

That advantage occurs at ALL distances.

The harder the wind blows, the bigger this advantage. AND the advantage is compounded by that itty bitty 300m V bull.

At shorter distances where it is calm and really a trigger pull, the 6BR really shines BUT many larger chamberings can shoot enough to hit the V bull IF the shooter can ride that bucking horse. This is a shooter issue as much as a chambering one.

It seems to be windy at most matches I get to.

I think a better way to look at a 2 rifle set up is use the 6BR on a calm day and a cannon with the birds walk. On a calm day, a 6BR would be fully competitive at ALL distances vs a boomer BUT it rarely is ever calm

YMMV.

Jerry

PS a 50-2V beats a 49-14V everytime. How good IS your wind reading and shooting skills?
 
Obtunded said:
The guy that knows his 6mm BR better than the 7mm shooter knows his rig is likely going to win.
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Agreed, for sure. That's how I would bet.

But given two top-level F/Open shooters, I would bet on the 6.5 shooter having an edge over the 6BR shooter - not only at 1000 yards but also at 300 yards and all distances in between.

To the original poster AlexF - I think that increasing your rifle's weight to near 10kg (the F/Open weight limit) would be a better tradeoff. It is a royal hassle to lug a ~20#+ rifle around the range, along with the associated gear, but that's what's done in F/Open and you will then be as comfortable shooting it as your fellow competitors are. In my opinion a 20+ pound rifle is less of a liability for long range hunting, than a 13.5# rifle is for F/Open target shooting.
 
Obtunded said:
If all you did was aim dead center (at long distance) with every shot. the guy with the 7mm 180 grain VLD bullet will beat a guy with a 6B doing the same thing since his bullet will move less. The 7mm guy still needs to correct for changes, and the 6mm guy will need to move more, but if he is accurate in his wind/mirage calls he's got her beat.

The guy that knows his 6mm BR better than the 7mm shooter knows his rig is likely going to win.
Click to expand...

But that is the rub because the 7mm has a higher BC the guy shooting the 7mm doesn't have to be as good as the 6br guy to equal or better the 6br simply because the 7mm allows for a great error in wind calls.

So for the 6br guy he not only has to be better then the 7mm shooter's wind calling ability he also has to overcome the higher BC offered by the 7mm bullet.

you can pick any caliber less then 7mm and the rule applies but in varying degrees.

Now the 7mm guy will give back some to recoil management issues but it won't bring them on par.

Trevor
 
Trevor you shot the highest score with your .308 on Sunday in Ottawa a couple weeks ago you shot a higher score than all the open class guns, and Sat a mouse gun beat all the open class guns,and if you had have been able to stay and shoot on Monday you where a shoe in to win the F/TR class. There are lots of open class shooters building 6br for short ranges out to 600, I just don,t understand why, The 223 with the 90gr bullets is a better choice, higher BC bullets and you have a rifle to shoot in the F/TR class.
Last year at Ontario championships the .308 of Terrys and a 223 where top guns at 300yards and other distances, beat all the 6br and all the big open class rifles.
At Ottawa on Monday in tough conditions the best score shot was a 68 with 5 vs Barry with his 284win and 180gr bergers the next highest score was a rookie shooter shooting a
factory 7 twist 223 rem with a score of 68 & 4 vs there was a lot of open class guns in the 50s.
I shot at Quebec Provincials last year and there was almost 4 to 1 shooting F/TR and Darin shot high scores winning with his .308win I would not be surprised to see 6 F/TR shooters to every one in open class shooters. I am sure there will be more FTR shooters in Kingston next weekend than open class and would be afraid to bet a beer that the FTR guys will score as high or higher than open class, with .308 and 223 rem
sorry guys for ranting
manitou
 
Thanks Manitou I had a good day that Sunday.
That is a great idea building a 223 for short range as it would allow the option to particiate in both division. I know you have your 223 humming and it is amazing and frustrating to watch you shoot an 18lbs gun in 223 that recoils as much as my air rifle while you consistantly drill the V at 300 and 500 and 600

So AlexF we have decided for you LOL that you need a 2nd rifle in 223 to shoot short range and then have your 7wsm at the longer distances. Hope it doesn't hurt your wallet too much... your :welcome:
 
My observations as of late.

It appears to me that F/TR was an attempt to level the playing field and somewhat stay out of the arms race.
Since the removal of bullet weights I've noticed everyone getting the latest best BC bullets for the .223/.308 cases and more fancier tricked out bipods to gain an edge. In essence, you are heading down the same road with slightly less expense as F-Open.

I've never been convinced that one relay is indicative that a certain cartridge/bullet is optimal. Sometimes, the conditions were just right at that relay and everyone else struggled more on the next. Yes, some luck of the draw factors in too.

It is the wind reader, shooter and final agg. If you match this with a high BC F-Open gun it is for certain that the final score will be higher. There is no way that .500 BC bullet will beat a .700 one in the exact same conditions for the whole match.
 
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