Is .40 Smith and Wesson Going The Way of the Dodo?

thegazelle

thegazelle

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Years ago I bought a .40 S&W PCC. Got a decent of ammo for it eventually thinking maybe I'll buy another one down the road.

Seems like 9mm PCCs are now seemingly the standard offering. Occasionally something comes in .45ACP, but the increased ammo cost make it a bit cost prohibitive. I don't have an RPAL, so will not be getting a .40 handgun. I don't seem to see a lot of PCCs offered in .40 S&W.

I was recently talking with another CGNer who has been trying to sell off his .40S&W ammo for a long time. Seems like no one is biting. When I go to my local gun store, the .40 S&W section doesn't seem to ever change. My LGS had a JR Carbine in 9mm and .45ACP. Nothing in .40 and they told me there is just no demand.

Is this a dying cartridge? For sure, 9mm ammo is cheaper and more readily available, but as a more powerful cartridge, I am trying to understand why the .40 doesn't have more love.
 
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Nine Mil is now the current flavor of the decade. Next decade it will be something different. Buy and stock what you like and don't worry about what the lemmings are now up to.

I've seen it shift in popularity from 357 mag to 45 ACP to 9 mil to 40 S&W now back to 9 mil. Gun and Ammo companies love this sort of thing and the purpose of their marketing is to make you dissatisfied with what you currently own.
 
Use whatever you like, end of the day it's whatever makes your #### tingle. However, the trend to 40 then back to 9 is routed in the advancement of bullet construction. The 40 offered better terminal performance with the technology of the early 90's. Now with current bullet construction the 40 offers nothing over the 9mm but expense and greater recoil. Not exactly a selling point, or even any tangible benefit beyond a requirement for better FMJ performance. Anyone who has a need for greater terminal ballistics than a 9mm in an autoloader is generally going to look at 10mm. Remember, the 40 only came in to existance because the 10mm was deemed to difficult for small statured shooters according to the FBI who initiated the entire 9 to 10 to 40 and back to 9 trend. All this based off of a great deal of research and experience bear in mind. The 40 has been made largely obsolete by this technological advancement.
 
JDForBrkFst said:
Use whatever you like, end of the day it's whatever makes your #### tingle. However, the trend to 40 then back to 9 is routed in the advancement of bullet construction. The 40 offered better terminal performance with the technology of the early 90's. Now with current bullet construction the 40 offers nothing over the 9mm but expense and greater recoil. Not exactly a selling point, or even any tangible benefit beyond a requirement for better FMJ performance. Anyone who has a need for greater terminal ballistics than a 9mm in an autoloader is generally going to look at 10mm. Remember, the 40 only came in to existance because the 10mm was deemed to difficult for small statured shooters according to the FBI who initiated the entire 9 to 10 to 40 and back to 9 trend. All this based off of a great deal of research and experience bear in mind. The 40 has been made largely obsolete by this technological advancement.
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Thanks for this information. Exactly what I needed to know. I am a small statured shooter, and the .40 is fine for my needs, though I like cheap and 9mm is cheaper so you are right, therein lies part of the attraction - cost.

My question was not so much preference related as it was whether the .40 is going to be obsolete. If it is going the way of the Betamax (VHS competitor), I may just decide to abandon the .40 altogether, sell the ammo and sell the gun. Ideally I'd like to buy another PCC in .40, but not sure if long term the cartridge is viable. I don't want to find another gun in .40, and then use up my ammo and then they stop producing it or it becomes a rare boutique cartridge. I also want to get another PCC in .40 because the one that I do have (Keltec Sub2K) in .40 my kids hate it and it's predominantly due to the recoil. I think some of that is the light weight nature of the gun, so I had my eyes set on a JR Carbine in .40 but I can't seem to find that anywhere else.

Agree with the cost - and it's gone up again recently. The Federal .40 S&W Syntech box was $24.99 a box of 50 a few months ago, now it is $30.00.

Thanks for the input everyone.
 
Sure 9mm has improved their bullets but at the same time so has 40sw so 9mm is what 40sw was and 40sw now is still better because it has more weight and more energy same reason 45 is still around more weight more energy then a 9mm.

The nice part about having a 40sw is you get a 357sig barrel and now your shooting 9mm projectiles 300fps faster then a 9mm handgun. so if 9mm bullets have improved, shooting that 9mm way faster is better. My P226 I can shoot 22lr,40sw,357sig, 9mm all from the same gun just change the upper. So that is just an all around win!

As for pcc since they are NR you can take them camping or hiking I would rather have a 40sw pcc for animal defense then a 9mm pcc if I had a choice. I have a FX-9 it's awesome but I'm still getting a 40sw pcc whenever I find one

Never can have too many guns or too many different calibers. In the states people with 40sw can find ammo 9mm people are SOL. The same is with 22lr and 17hmr.

No reason you shouldn't have both :)
 
Ravage said:
Sure 9mm has improved their bullets but at the same time so has 40sw so 9mm is what 40sw was and 40sw now is still better because it has more weight and more energy same reason 45 is still around more weight more energy then a 9mm.

The nice part about having a 40sw is you get a 357sig barrel and now your shooting 9mm projectiles 300fps faster then a 9mm handgun. so if 9mm bullets have improved, shooting that 9mm way faster is better. My P226 I can shoot 22lr,40sw,357sig, 9mm all from the same gun just change the upper. So that is just an all around win!

As for pcc since they are NR you can take them camping or hiking I would rather have a 40sw pcc for animal defense then a 9mm pcc if I had a choice. I have a FX-9 it's awesome but I'm still getting a 40sw pcc whenever I find one

Never can have too many guns or too many different calibers. In the states people with 40sw can find ammo 9mm people are SOL. The same is with 22lr and 17hmr.

No reason you shouldn't have both :)
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Good to know. Would love to see the FX9 in .40 - not sure if it is or not - I seem to be under the impression only PCC in .40 option is JR and Keltech.

That is an excellent point about ammo shortages.
 
thegazelle said:
Good to know. Would love to see the FX9 in .40 - not sure if it is or not - I seem to be under the impression only PCC in .40 option is JR and Keltech.

That is an excellent point about ammo shortages.
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I would like the sub 2000 multimag because then I can use my P226 mags but ruger has a 40sw pcc takedown that would be a close second.

The aero rifle is also kinda neat because of the multiple caliber swaps you can do with it.

Get into reloading handgun is easy to reload they all use the same primer and powder keep your cases and just buy some bullets like campro they are easy to find and affordable and in a pcc you can find a nicer loading for more accuracy out of the longer barrel
 
This is true Ravage. However the point is the lethality issues of 9mm back then have been negated. If your target is effectively neutralized with modern 9mm, why would you want more recoil and expense? Some may want this, and that is just fine. It's not a reason to go 40 though. Accurate, fast rounds on target is king. If you can afford to train more shooting the cheaper caliber, you are more effective. Your follow ups will be faster because of more training and less recoil. As far as back country carry with PCC's. I wouldn't want to be my life on one in anything less than 10mm. Even then a shotgun is better. Carry what you want. Personally though, having had to kill a predatory bear in the wild I'm going to stick with 10mm or 12g. Fun fact, I tried to spray that bear first, didn't pan out as advertised.
 
It's not about picking one :) no reason to not get a 40sw if you already have a 9mm ! Why limit yourself ? If I were buying 2 handguns I wouldn't buy two 9mm

I have three handguns and with that can shoot 22lr, 9mm, 40sw, 357sig, 45acp only reason I bought my Glock 17 was because I have an FX-9 so I had a dozen mags for it already :) reason I would prefer the sub 2000 40sw multimag is again because I have a dozen P226 mags I can use for it
 
Like I said. Whatever makes your #### tingle. I'm bringing all info to the table for the OP regarding the long term viability of 40, and why it may or may not make it. I don't have the money to run all kinds of calibers. I have a 9mm and a 10mm. That covers every practical need I can concieve. Well, unless one wants a 22. I also own a 45, purely because I like it and if a guy is going to own only one 1911, it should be in 45.
 
I was a LEO when our service (Edmonton Police) transitioned from revolvers in 38 spl (S&W model 10) to semi auto 40 S&W (Glocks). At that time I was becoming a "gun guy" and all of the info available (pre internet) was confirming 40 S&W was the new caliber most agencies were transitioning to due to penetration and stopping power. There was some difficulties for female and small statured members (who were not previously used to heavier ballistics) in becoming proficient with the 40 S&W in the Glock design (light weight polymer). Most members were able to qualify with the new pistols however some required significant extra training. As many agencies are now going to the 9mm round including the EPS based mainly (in my opinion) on the easier to handle 9mm justified by bullet and general ammunition performance. We are selling far fewer 40 S&W pistols (and ammunition) than 9mm due primarily to cost and the fact that it is easier to shoot. Personally, when asked for my opinion for a new shooter I would recommend 9mm over 40S&W for the above mentioned reasons. If I was able to carry a firearm in my store it would likely be a 9mm and probably a Glock because I am very familiar and confident with that make.

As time goes on there will be less 40S&W ammunition available than 9mm and that is a reality people should take in consideration. I still believe 40S&W is more capable of stopping a human threat however the reality is my current level of proficiency, 9mm is the better choice for me. Phil.
 
I have thousands of 40 S&W cases saved from when the cops were less than diligent about retrieving their brass when they used our club ranges.
They still use the range but when I saw a "boot" cop on the range that couldn't have weighed more than 90 pounds soaking wet I realized why they went back to 9mm.
 
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Sounds like due to technological advances and the 9mm having similar performance characteristics, there doesn't appear to be any sense that there will be a switch back to .40 anytime soon.

For me it is not so much what is popular or not, but what is a long term viable option in terms of availability, therefore affecting whether I sink any more money into another .40 gun and subsequently more .40 ammo. I remember my Dad buying tons of Betamax tapes, believing it was both the future and a better quality tape (since then it has been proven that it was). But VHS just became dominant and good quality or not, Betamax was relegated to the historical stockpile of "good product, but not what became universally adopted".

Thanks everyone for your input. It has been helpful to my decision making process.
 
jonnyc said:
Just an FYI...it's "DODO", not "DO DO"... The first was a bird, the second is a pile of crap.
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Thanks for the clarification. Believe it or not I actually knew that from an episode of the Flintstones one time when I was a kid (first time I ever heard the term, and it may have been the last) but forgot over the years, but I appreciate it being pointed out. I have adjusted the thread title accordingly (though I suppose I could have left it and feigned ignorance and said oh yes, I meant turd...but I am not that disingenuous).
 
No skin in the game. However, I subscribe to a.few guntubers. The ammo shortage had everything cleaned out, except 40. Any gun like object also sold after Biden declared winner. So long forgotten ....dusty 40s out the door.

Likely people caught without ammo, may try 40, new buyers as.well.
 
nowarningshot said:
No skin in the game. However, I subscribe to a.few guntubers. The ammo shortage had everything cleaned out, except 40. Any gun like object also sold after Biden declared winner. So long forgotten ....dusty 40s out the door.

Likely people caught without ammo, may try 40, new buyers as.well.
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Wow, that's crazy. Even the bigger rounds like the .45ACP sold out before the .40s... Maybe there will be a big blow out sale on .40 ammo down the line then, if stores are having challenges moving it.
 
Ravage said:
Sure 9mm has improved their bullets but at the same time so has 40sw so 9mm is what 40sw was and 40sw now is still better because it has more weight and more energy same reason 45 is still around more weight more energy then a 9mm.

The nice part about having a 40sw is you get a 357sig barrel and now your shooting 9mm projectiles 300fps faster then a 9mm handgun. so if 9mm bullets have improved, shooting that 9mm way faster is better. My P226 I can shoot 22lr,40sw,357sig, 9mm all from the same gun just change the upper. So that is just an all around win!

As for pcc since they are NR you can take them camping or hiking I would rather have a 40sw pcc for animal defense then a 9mm pcc if I had a choice. I have a FX-9 it's awesome but I'm still getting a 40sw pcc whenever I find one

Never can have too many guns or too many different calibers. In the states people with 40sw can find ammo 9mm people are SOL. The same is with 22lr and 17hmr.

No reason you shouldn't have both :)
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9x19 benefits from more bullet R&D dollars than any other pistol caliber by far at this point.

This usually results in companies being able to extract more of its potential compared to the other calibers, even within the same bullet design family.
 
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