Is Browning-condition 1911 better than aftermarket?

[Unregistered]

A lot of people like to put extended safetys, extended beavertails, higher front and rear sights, extended mag release, front slide serrrations, etc... on their 1911s. This is different than the default configuration John Browning designed it with.

Is there any tradeoff to installing these components? Some say they decrease reliability or the combat functionality of the pistol (e.g. fancy sights might preclude using them to chamber a round with the slide in the event that the operator's arm is injured).

How many of the improvements have no tradeoff, and how many may impair the original intent of the pistol?

 

[NAA]

Personally, the only "improvements" I see warranted on a standard 1911 or 1911A-1 pistol that is functioning as it was designed would be higher visibility sites. That and a full length guide rod are about the only two "improvements" that I like to put in my regular "shooters".

 

[--Terry--]

I think beavertail grip safeties make sense, because the upper web of my palm hurts after 50+ rounds of shooting my A1 style 1911. It was from the beating of the narrow grip safety (not hammer bite, though).

Installing a beavertail eliminated this problem totally.

 

[coltfan]

Personally, the only "improvements" I see warranted on a standard 1911 or 1911A-1 pistol that is functioning as it was designed would be higher visibility sites. That and a full length guide rod are about the only two "improvements" that I like to put in my regular "shooters".

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] The pistol runs smoother and stays snug longer because the slide is guided straight back and forward on the guide rod, rather than depending so much on the frame rails for guidance.

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Better sights on the 1911 allow for better and faster sighting.

A well designed beavertail grip safety improves handling, distributes recoil, and eliminates hammer bite.

These upgrades are well accepted.

There are other areas to consider for improvements as long as they are field practical, and don't adversely affect reliability.


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[The Hippie]

The only thing i have on my norinco is a longer trigger, and it works just fine.
personaly i dont like buying things that are 'upgraded' because ususaly in these up grades is where things go wrong.
and usualy i have a diferent idea of what should be on the gun.

 

[geologist]

If I put a full length guide rod into my NP-29, will it still be possible to press check the pistol?

 

[coltfan]

If I put a full length guide rod into my NP-29, will it still be possible to press check the pistol?

Press check ???

Do you mean a disconnector test....if you do then yes...

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]DISCONNECTOR TEST: Slide forward, hammer back, thumb safety OFF. Grip gun normally with firing hand, while pulling slide back 1/4" with support hand. Pull trigger. Hammer should not fall. Repeat test by pulling slide all the way back, then releasing it slowly, pulling trigger every 1/2" of slide movement. The hammer should NOT fall until the slide has returned to the full forward position. If it does then the disconnector is worn. DO NOT fire the pistol until it is repaired, or else it may possibly go into firing uncontrollable bursts or go completely "full-auto".

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[geologist]

No I mean checking for a loaded chamber by pulling back the slide 3/4".

 

[--Terry--]

Of course yes.

The guide rod doesn't make any difference in the operation of the action. Some people even feel that it is smoother...

 

[ian_in_vic]

Any modification that is done with high quality parts, and where necessary fitted by a competent pistol smith, should have no effect on reliability. I'm not a huge fan of guide rods, some guys swear by them. If a guide rod gets in the way of your press check it shouldn't take much of an adjustment in technique to accomplish the same goal - there's more than one way to skin a cat. High visibility sights are a huge improvement, as are throat polishing and a trigger job, beyond that it's pretty much flavour to taste.

 

[Teapot]

I have only seen problems with web pinch on fat people. Beavertails are needed now because when John Browning designed the pistol fast food was not available or not as much. I weigh 160 Lbs and did not understand why some guys said I need to get a beavertail when bought my Norinco 1911. It was only later I discovered why when observing some overweight guys shoot my gun. It DID indeed pinch the web of their hand as their flesh actually "poured" over the top of the small grip safety where it meets the hammer.
So in some cases the beavertail is a must.

Note: I am not trying to offend anyone. Please do not take my post the way it was not intended.

 

[NAA]

I have only seen problems with web pinch on fat people. Beavertails are needed now because when John Browning designed the pistol fast food was not available or not as much. I weigh 160 Lbs and did not understand why some guys said I need to get a beavertail when bought my Norinco 1911. It was only later I discovered why when observing some overweight guys shoot my gun. It DID indeed pinch the web of their hand as their flesh actually "poured" over the top of the small grip safety where it meets the hammer.
So in some cases the beavertail is a must.

Note: I am not trying to offend anyone. Please do not take my post the way it was not intended.

Interesting observation & perhaps somewhat true. But not in all cases. I have a friend that is in amazing shape for his age, approaching 70. I would certainly not call him "fat" by any stretch of the imagination. But he gets hammer 'bitten' shooting an original Colt 1911 if it has the short tang grip safety installed. In fact he recently purchased a USGI WWII Colt 1911A-1 that had the older 1911 short tang grip safety installed. I gave him a correct grip safety with the longer tang to install so he could shoot it.

I, on the other hand, am not what you would consider 'svelt'. I also have 'big' hands. Yet, I can shoot original 1911's with the short tang grip safety and even the later 1911A-1's with the longer tang grip safety & have never been 'bitten'. So, for me, having owned numerous 1911's over the years have never had the need to install an after market beaver tail into any of my 1911 style pistols.

There you go...

 

[EdGCNM]

IMO the need for a beavertail has more to do with a really high grip on the gun than just hand size or being fat. When I shoot bullseye with my .45 using a one-handed grip (much the way the original 1911 was used), I never get hammer bite with the standard grip safety. When I shoot IPSC or PPC with a high two-handed grip with my thumb resting on top of the safety and my other hand pressing in, I bleed.

I'd shot one-handed for years with my 1911 and didn't understand what the problem with hammer bite was. I soon figured it out once I started IPSC!

 

[jackpine]

The need to upgrade,improve or just personalise the great 1911 is just that,it's a personalisation to an individuals specific grip ergonomics when speaking of high beavertail grip safeties with the now ever popular memory groove which for my smallish hand is a great improvement.When speaking of sights on stock 1911's there'a lot of room for improvement but the question really begs to be asked ,is it for competition or personal defence.When speaking of triggers once again we must fit the gun to the hand,and in this instance the short Videcki's have made for greater control as in my case and aftermarket add-ons have great possibilties but the average shooter does not know when to quit in the absence of having been there,done that.

 

[krausb]

If I put a full length guide rod into my NP-29, will it still be possible to press check the pistol?

No, the full length guide rod interfers with a standard press check. That is why many "modern" 1911's have front cocking serrations. Thumb and forefinger of your free hand grip the serrationd from underneath the slide and pull back the slide to reveal your loaded/unloaded chamber.

 

[richardoldfield]

Unregistered, most of my interest is in car/carry handguns. Therefore, I do like the extended grip safety with a memory pad and my eyes like plain Novak sights. I have large hands and i can live happily with the factory slide stop and safety. Regards, Richard

My #1 Norinco was set up for target/pin shooting and it does have an extended safety and slide release. I would never do it again:

The Springer I put together. Damned near perfect for car/carry:

 

[jackpine]

In addressing full length guide rods,they absolutely serve a distinct purpose when dealing with high intensity rounds such as the 10MM Auto where Colts' factory issue answer was a double spring arrangement which needed much improvement as they would kink from the severe slide velocity(roughly 30 % greater than the 45 Auto) and during takedown & reassembly.In this case a heavier 24 lb. spring on a Wilson Combat guide rod and shock buffs effectively reduced the slide to frame battering commonly encountered.A st.stl. Delta I have was also "accu-railed" by Robby Kreiger out of Detroit some 15 years ago which gives the impression the slide is riding on ball bearings where the original slide to frame mating was replaced by 1/16 drill rod and a precise fit.The difference is dramatic and shock buffs are much cheaper than stress cracks.Ambi safeties are a must for us southpaws as there's no alternative.

 

[richardoldfield]

In addressing full length guide rods,they absolutely serve a distinct purpose when dealing with high intensity rounds such as the 10MM Auto where Colts' factory issue answer was a double spring arrangement which needed much improvement as they would kink from the severe slide velocity(roughly 30 % greater than the 45 Auto) and during takedown & reassembly.In this case a heavier 24 lb. spring on a Wilson Combat guide rod and shock buffs effectively reduced the slide to frame battering commonly encountered.A st.stl. Delta I have was also "accu-railed" by Robby Kreiger out of Detroit some 15 years ago which gives the impression the slide is riding on ball bearings where the original slide to frame mating was replaced by 1/16 drill rod and a precise fit.The difference is dramatic and shock buffs are much cheaper than stress cracks.Ambi safeties are a must for us southpaws as there's no alternative.

Where do I start? I have know Bob Kreiger for at least 29 years. He used to be the gunsmith at Griswold Sporting Goods before he moved to Auburn Hills. I am a naysayer when it comes to guide rods as I really do not see how they improve anything. Lastly, my Dan Wesson 10mm does not have a guide rod and it functions fine. Regards, Richard

 

[jackpine]

Bob Kreiger

Where do I start? I have know Bob Kreiger for at least 29 years. He used to be the gunsmith at Griswold Sporting Goods before he moved to Auburn Hills. I am a naysayer when it comes to guide rods as I really do not see how they improve anything. Lastly, my Dan Wesson 10mm does not have a guide rod and it functions fine. Regards, Richard

I did not have the opportunity to actually meet Mr. Kreiger as the accu-rail job he did on my Delta was only part of the custom work done by Russ Carniak sadly now passed as he was a custom pistolsmith out of Birmingham,Mich.,a war vet,and a real gentleman.As far as the venerable 1911 design goes,it's very hard to argue the combat reliability of a weapon that has stood the test of time in the major conflicts it was called to.My point is not to argue or debate anyones' opinion about upgrading a 1911 but rather to raise the real probability of the 10MM's ability to shorten the lifespan of the Delta in it's stock form when using high intensity ammo on a regular basis.The Para-Ordnance models in 10MM were and still are from what I've been told very problematic when using the real hot fodder.

 

[richardoldfield]

"I did not have the opportunity to actually meet Mr. Kreiger as the accu-rail job he did on my Delta was only part of the custom work done by Russ Carniak sadly now passed as he was a custom pistolsmith out of Birmingham,Mich.,a war vet,and a real gentleman."

jackpine, guess who my gunsmith is ? Did you guess correctly? The answer is Russ' daughter, Marianne, who runs the Accurizer Gunshop in Troy, MI. Marianne was trained by her dad. I had Russ do work for me before his death, was refered to his daughter buy D/A Range in Madison Heights, Mi. I have never had Accu-Rails put on a handgun but Marianne installs them on pistols. I will post pictures of Marianne's work on another thread.

Regards,

Richard