Do Europeans use pump shotguns??My Father and uncle had no idea how to use a pump and they are in there 60's..It just feels really awkward to them in there hands.All they used were single shot or side by sides in there years of hunting and shooting
Is it just me or...
- Thread starter jethro66
- Start date
Only have one friend from the UK that shoots over here and he is very clear pump guns are cheap pieces of trash and if you could see the SXS's he owns he is 100% right
I'd say your family is the same and owned some real quality shotguns over the years. Give them a SXS on a clay target field and they will probally kick some serious ass
I'd say your family is the same and owned some real quality shotguns over the years. Give them a SXS on a clay target field and they will probally kick some serious ass
my dad is the same way give him a side by side and he can put us all to shame in the duck blind .I donot think he ever used a pump to hunt with .the only time he would us a pump was or the turkey shoots put on by the local fish and game clubs then it was the old model 12s .DUTCH
The pump shotgun is an American invention and was never popular in Great Britain or Europe. Most consider it pretty crude though I would take a quality pump any day over an economy European double. Many shooters in Great Britain barely consider an over and under double a shotgun.
Hunting and shooting in Great Britain is much different than here. Comparing the two would be like comparing apples to oranges or pumps to side by sides. Shotguns are crude devices to begin with. Delicate mechanics, fine walnut, and hand embellishments don't make an English shotgun anymore accurate than a simple utilitarian single shot, pump, or crude bolt shotgun. You're shooting little balls of lead down a pipe and aiming with a little ball of brass. Not exactly a precision tool.
I can see how someone could think a pump gun is crude, but these are still very effective tools. A traditional double shotgun is a think of beauty and I would never deny that.
Lever guns never really caught on elsewhere in the world either.
I can see how someone could think a pump gun is crude, but these are still very effective tools. A traditional double shotgun is a think of beauty and I would never deny that.
Lever guns never really caught on elsewhere in the world either.
Ahsan Ahmed
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
That statement ought to be revisited.....inaccurate in so many ways!
As far as slide actions are concerned, they have their uses, more prominently in this Continent. Some of those, particularly the sub-gauges do handle nice in the matters of Wingshooting. However, when all is said and done, no matter how well made and embellished a pump action may be, it is still, as the saying goes - "a crow dressed in Peacock feathers."
I think you slightly misunderstood what I meant.
I understand that pumps are crude in comparison both mechanically and in fit and finish (traditional double gun vs generic slide action) but at the end of the day shotguns are simple in principle and one design is not more accurate then the next.
My $4,000 Beretta, $350 SXP, and $75.00 cooey all shoot remarkably similar with the same choke. I can feel the difference of quality in my hands but neither paper nor game can tell the difference.
I understand that pumps are crude in comparison both mechanically and in fit and finish (traditional double gun vs generic slide action) but at the end of the day shotguns are simple in principle and one design is not more accurate then the next.
My $4,000 Beretta, $350 SXP, and $75.00 cooey all shoot remarkably similar with the same choke. I can feel the difference of quality in my hands but neither paper nor game can tell the difference.
That statement ought to be revisited.....inaccurate in so many ways!
As far as slide actions are concerned, they have their uses, more prominently in this Continent. Some of those, particularly the sub-gauges do handle nice in the matters of Wingshooting. However, when all is said and done, no matter how well made and embellished a pump action may be, it is still, as the saying goes - "a crow dressed in Peacock feathers."
Rod B
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
ninepointer
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
they may not like pumps very much overseas, but semi-autos are popular, including in the U.K.
I've use the term "lipstick on a pig" in the past. I have 2 pumps; one I bought and one I inherited. They are utilitarian tools that do their jobs very well, with all the charming lines of a pipe wrench, a well cared for pipe wrench.
I've never understood the notion of a "custom" pump action. I've seen Model 12's and Model 37's done up in beautiful high-grade walnut. They still looked like pipe wrenches.
However, when all is said and done, no matter how well made and embellished a pump action may be, it is still, as the saying goes - "a crow dressed in Peacock feathers."
I've use the term "lipstick on a pig" in the past
. I have 2 pumps; one I bought and one I inherited. They are utilitarian tools that do their jobs very well, with all the charming lines of a pipe wrench, a well cared for pipe wrench. I've never understood the notion of a "custom" pump action. I've seen Model 12's and Model 37's done up in beautiful high-grade walnut. They still looked like pipe wrenches.
Ahsan Ahmed
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Well, let’s place aside the argument of Pump action vs. breechloading Double Gun.....it’s mainly a matter of individual preferences influenced by multiple variables. Therefore, such debates don’t have much meaning for the majority of folks.
However, you referred to (modern day) shotguns as crude devices – in what manner? Certainly, the thread isn’t about primitive smoothbore types such as Wheellocks, Matchlocks etc?
There is also the mention of accuracy performance - regardless of action types, what has that got to do as far as a smoothbore shotgun is concerned? Nobody selects a shotgun type over the other based on that factor alone.
Not exactly a precision tool? Why? Obviously, not from a perspective of achieving pinpoint accuracy but definitely a yes from build and functional point of view. To an extent, even the slide action shotgun has merit in that area.
FWIW, English shotguns or for that matter double guns of similar quality may not be more accurate, as you put it, compared to other various action types - that is/was never the manufacturers’ sole marketing goal anyway. It’s the packaging of all the finer aspects of overall build quality that create the vast difference within the equation. In reality, if offered as a complimentary choice, 10 out of 10, the individual will opt for that $4k Beretta as opposed to that $75 Cooey no matter how well the accuracy virtue of the later brand is represented!
This is exactly what you were disagreeing with in my initial post. Hence why I said I thought you misunderstood me. I otherwise agree with almost everything you're saying but as for precision tools? Is a hammer a precision device? Not even close, but that doesn't mean that these cannot he works of art. I noticed a whole new world when I shot sporting clays with some old Scottish chaps. Shotguns so beautiful I'd be afraid to shoot them, and guys that truly knew how to use them. But those shotguns reaching the value of what remains on my mortgage were no less useful or accurate than the guy shooting a beat up old 870. With the advent of exchangeable chocked that 870 may even have had an advantage on some stations.
I think a good shooter could make any shotgun shoot well as long as it fit him/her accordingly and had the appropriate choke. Take a look at a rifle? There are many more variables that separate a precision rig from a hunting rig and most precision rifles are lacking aesthetics but can put three projectiles in the same hole at 100 yards. This is all I mean by a precision tool.
There is nothing more beautiful in the shooting world then a well built side lock side by side
There is a considerable amount of "precision" put into a British "Best" gun. Customers fly to England to be fitted with a try gun to make sure the length of pull, drop at heel and comb, pitch at butt stock and cast on or off are perfect for their body and face shape. Plus building and fitting a pair of sidelocks is not a job for anyone but an expert. Not to mention regulating a set of barrels for the same point of pattern center. It isn't hard to see how Europeans could be snobby about pump shotguns.
Yes, it is understandable. There is also the noise of the pump mechanism, how some have very loose forends, lesser build quality, plastic parts, aluminum parts, fiber optic beads, hardwood or synthetic stocks, etc...
ninepointer
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
Fellas,
Your taking Old Savage's reference to shotguns as "crude tools" far too seriously and literally. Relax, he clearly appreciates finely made shotguns
I've got to agree that, at some price point after say several thousands of dollars, the law of diminishing returns take a very steep nose-dive in terms of what you get for your money. Then again, he who can afford a Boss or a Holland & Holland isn't exactly what one would call a "value-minded shopper".
Your taking Old Savage's reference to shotguns as "crude tools" far too seriously and literally. Relax, he clearly appreciates finely made shotguns
I've got to agree that, at some price point after say several thousands of dollars, the law of diminishing returns take a very steep nose-dive in terms of what you get for your money. Then again, he who can afford a Boss or a Holland & Holland isn't exactly what one would call a "value-minded shopper".
gunsaholic
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg, Manitoba
Fellas,
Your taking Old Savage's reference to shotguns as "crude tools" far too seriously and literally. Relax, he clearly appreciates finely made shotguns
I've got to agree that, at some price point after say several thousands of dollars, the law of diminishing returns take a very steep nose-dive in terms of what you get for your money. Then again, he who can afford a Boss or a Holland & Holland isn't exactly what one would call a "value-minded shopper".
That's the way I looked at it when I acquired my Boss. But I married her anyway!
- Location
- South Shore, Nova Scotia
Went to the gun show in Waverly this weekend, and was surprised to see quite a few older bolt-action shotguns for sale...and even a lever action!
Who knew?
Well, some of you guys I imagine...still, I had never seen a lever shotty before myself. Kinda neat.
Who knew?
Well, some of you guys I imagine...still, I had never seen a lever shotty before myself. Kinda neat.
