Is it me or the ammo

G

Gleevo

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I'll try to keep this short. S&W MP 40, had it about 10 months, I would guess about 1500 rounds half are hand loads. Having troubles with accuracy. Yesterday at the range I tried a new grip/stance after watching a lot of youtube videos and some advice on the forum. I fired 20 rounds at each target from 20m and took pictures of each target between mags, I'll post each one after 20 rounds.

First target, hand loads


Second target, hand loads


Third target, hand loads


Fourth target, factory ammo


Fifth target, back to hand loads


Doing a black badge course this weekend and have to hit 10/10 at 20M which obviously I'm unable to do right now, so I'm wondering what I should change?
Factory ammo is 180gr AE FMJ. Handloads are Speer brass/CCI primers/180gr HP berry's plated/5gr IMR 700x.
 
it's you!

try using a sandbag / bench and it will show you the accuracy potential of the gun.

not sure were you got the 10/10 @ 20M from as I don't recall it when I did my black badge.
 
Try shooting from 7 yds and work your way back, once you can consistantly put all your rounds from 7 yds where you want them, work your way back to 10 then 15 then 20 yds...etc. It worked for me, just a suggestion anyways and as Caustic said if you wanna know your pistols true accuracy shoot from a rest or sand bag. hopefully this helps and keep shooting :)
 
It's both you and the ammo.

First, check your crimp. If your bullets are showing any deformation at all at the case mouth you need to back off on the crimp. Over-crimping + plated bullets = poor accuracy.

As well, though tighter, the grouping on your factory ammo target shows that most of your shots are going left and a large percentage of them are going low. That's all about trigger management. The short answer is that I would recommend a lot of dry-fire until you can consistently manipulate the trigger until you can release the striker without moving the sights. With live ammo, you won't be able to diagnose any errors that are occurring.

Lastly, I would be cautious of putting a lot of stock in anything found on Youtube. Certainly, there is some good stuff on there but there is also a lot of crap and it's all too easy to end up going a long way down the wrong road. That is, unless you're really sure of the source.

Good luck.
 
Sadly I'd have to agree that it's you... those groups are too big to be caused by ammo alone. So unless your pistol is REALLY messed up it's going to be things like trigger control, sight picture etc.

As mentioned, just practice at closer distances and work your way back. Your groups will tighten up with time!

Best of luck!
 
The first two show certain signs of a slight flinch issue. Namely low and left and somewhat irregular. But you seem to calm down and start to get in the groove in the second two.

Having said this even with your flinch in the first two targets you're doing well at keeping all the rounds on the target at 20 meters. A good free style group size for an average shooter is about 4 to 5 inches at that distance. Better than average hobby shooters can get down to around 3 inches. Good target shooters get their freestyle group sizes down to around 2'ish inches and Olympic team hopefuls manage to keep things down to around an inch.
 
Thanks for feedback guys. No I pretty much started at 20m and just shot from there. I'll try starting closer and working back as you guys suggested.

Also the BB course says you need to be able to hit 10/10 at 20m on a standard 8.5x11 target. Not sure if that's a perquisite, or by the end of the course kind of thing.

By the sounds of it I am definitely over crimping, but I do blame myself more than the ammo, I never had any sort of formal training or training by anyone really experienced so I'm learning it all as I go.

Greg
 
SOME M&Ps do have documented accuracy issues, but I think the 40 has been clear of that issue.

Get someone else to shoot your pistol. That's the only way to know for sure. Sometimes you get the Friday afternoon gun, it happens.

Sandbagging is a good idea, but note that you should NOT rest the dustcover on the bag. Unless you want to see some interesting groups. I did this with my M&P9 and it consistently moved the groups 6" high at 25m. Rest your wrists on the bag, and don't let the pistol contact the table or the bag directly.

Ammo, possibly, maybe, likely. Let us know what happens in your next round of testing.
 
I've looked at your targets a little closer now that I'm home from work and don't have any left-wing zealots looking over my shoulder. It looks like you've got a few tumblers in there on the hand-load sheets, so I'd say I'm 99% on the crimp issue. The jacket material is stretching or tearing and the deformed bullet starts to yaw when it exits the muzzle. You'll be lucky to get minute-of-bed sheet accuracy as long as this condition persists. Plus in general it looks like you're "sweet-spotting" the trigger. That is; you get your sight picture and then try to pull through the trigger stroke quickly before you loose it. This imparts a diagonal force to the trigger, which tends to deflect the shots low left.

Hold the sights in alignment with the spot on the target you wish to hit (accept that there will be some wobble) and build pressure on the trigger, taking care to draw it straight back. Continue building pressure until you see the sights begin to lift in recoil. You will probably have to consciously focus on this visual feed-back, as it is not an automated response to recoil, blast and noise. If you don't see this, it means you're blinking as you fire the shot and thus, shooting blind. If you do see this, the spot where the sight was when it began to lift is where the bullet went....assuming your loads are correct.

And I still recommend a crap-load of dry-firing. It's just about the best way to learn trigger discipline.
 
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