I have and i am getting sub moa at 100 yards with match 168 grain and at 200 i am at 1 inch to 1.25 .Good enough for me
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IS THE XCR-M a DISAPPOINTMENT?
- Thread starter tx200
- Start date
I have and i am getting sub moa at 100 yards with match 168 grain and at 200 i am at 1 inch to 1.25 .Good enough for me
Peoples expectations these days are a bit unrealistic. I saw the same thing with the RFB. 1 to 1.5 with good ammo matched to the rifle would be excellent in these types of rifles.
Both have 18.5" length barrels that are chrome lined. They also use action types that aren't designed to be tack drivers. The heavier barrels are used in these two rifles to help avoid vertical stringing. A common issue with both of these action types. Also tuning the gas system is required to keep accuracy along with finding the right ammo. As it stands now 1 moa is achievable with both platforms if you're only shooting 3 rounds. Shoot 5 and you better have everything perfect because chances are it will open up a fair amount.
If you want to see how accurate these rifles can be then you'll need a match grade barrel. I'd recommend 20" minimum for a 308. This seems to be the sweet spot for 308 shorter barrels while retaining reasonable velocity. This should also make it easy to find a reload or use factory match ammo.
One of the reasons I believe for the super accuracy expectation is the AR rifle. AR15 and AR10 rifles can have exceptional accuracy. The construction, bolt design and DI system make the AR one of the easiest semi autos to turn into a tack driver.
Both the RFB and XCR use older style systems with the RFB utilizing a short piston tilting block ala SVT40 and the XCR using a hybrid of the AK style action.
Both rifles are also consumer grade products not battle rifles. Some of their design elements and or construction don't allow them to be called battle rifles. At least not in there current form.
They are fun non restricted semi auto 308 rifles. They aren't tack drivers or battle rifles. Both have some nice features and with a lot of tweaking can produce decent accuracy. But if you're expecting them to shoot like an accurized AR then you will be disapointed. Especially when they come with chrome lined non match grade barrels.
Both have 18.5" length barrels that are chrome lined. They also use action types that aren't designed to be tack drivers. The heavier barrels are used in these two rifles to help avoid vertical stringing. A common issue with both of these action types. Also tuning the gas system is required to keep accuracy along with finding the right ammo. As it stands now 1 moa is achievable with both platforms if you're only shooting 3 rounds. Shoot 5 and you better have everything perfect because chances are it will open up a fair amount.
If you want to see how accurate these rifles can be then you'll need a match grade barrel. I'd recommend 20" minimum for a 308. This seems to be the sweet spot for 308 shorter barrels while retaining reasonable velocity. This should also make it easy to find a reload or use factory match ammo.
One of the reasons I believe for the super accuracy expectation is the AR rifle. AR15 and AR10 rifles can have exceptional accuracy. The construction, bolt design and DI system make the AR one of the easiest semi autos to turn into a tack driver.
Both the RFB and XCR use older style systems with the RFB utilizing a short piston tilting block ala SVT40 and the XCR using a hybrid of the AK style action.
Both rifles are also consumer grade products not battle rifles. Some of their design elements and or construction don't allow them to be called battle rifles. At least not in there current form.
They are fun non restricted semi auto 308 rifles. They aren't tack drivers or battle rifles. Both have some nice features and with a lot of tweaking can produce decent accuracy. But if you're expecting them to shoot like an accurized AR then you will be disapointed. Especially when they come with chrome lined non match grade barrels.
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blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Honestly, I'm not sure what anyone else is looking for. There are few (if any?) other options in the non-restricted/semi-automatic black rifle category...
This is what happens when the younger generation gets out of their cocoon of cuddly I'm ok you're ok soccer mommy hugs and hits the harsh reality of the real world.
Newsflash bud. Nobody is gonna do your bidding just cause you demand it.
For those who may have missed my review thread on the xcr-m back from this spring when I was all excited about it...the xcr-m was a big disappointment for me.
I am likely one of the guys the original poster references when he mentions lower quality optics (I was running a 2-7x33 leupold) and a less-than-ideal rest (shooting off my trailer, both from a Harris bipod and then using the mag as a monopod on a block of wood).
Shooting 10 round groups from a cold barrel, my experience was severe vertical stringing when including the first two rounds. If these first and second round vertical fliers were discounted, then I would characterize the gun as capable of 1.5 to 2 MOA. If you include the cold bore shots, then it was more like 6 to 8 MOA.
I should add that shooting my remington 700, set up with similar glass, from the same trailer and same rest results in consistant sub MOA.
So anyway...my opinion is that if someone is expecting the xcr-m to shoot like a good bolt gun there is a high probability they are going to be disappointed.
Cheers,
Brobee
I am likely one of the guys the original poster references when he mentions lower quality optics (I was running a 2-7x33 leupold) and a less-than-ideal rest (shooting off my trailer, both from a Harris bipod and then using the mag as a monopod on a block of wood).
Shooting 10 round groups from a cold barrel, my experience was severe vertical stringing when including the first two rounds. If these first and second round vertical fliers were discounted, then I would characterize the gun as capable of 1.5 to 2 MOA. If you include the cold bore shots, then it was more like 6 to 8 MOA.
I should add that shooting my remington 700, set up with similar glass, from the same trailer and same rest results in consistant sub MOA.
So anyway...my opinion is that if someone is expecting the xcr-m to shoot like a good bolt gun there is a high probability they are going to be disappointed.
Cheers,
Brobee
I've owned XCR-Ls and I'm more optimist than you are for 3 reasons:
- 6-8 MOA groups from a modern rifle is almost impossible (even a shotgun with slug), you're rifle had a bug or a special issue
- XCR-L improved rapidly after the first production (same is true for Toyota Corolla!)
- both my XCR-Ls 223 was very accurate with PMC M193 and Hornady TAP-FDP 60gr
I sure hope that you got a good resale value and good support from Wolverine Supplies.
Alex
TX200 my suggestion is that you go out and buy an XCR-M then buy the best Schmidt & Bender scope then do the most intensive testing you can come up with using every type of match ammo and all different types of handloads using all different powder/bullet/primer/brass variations available then report back here and tell us all about it.
If you are disappointed you can always sell the rifle for almost what you paid for it on the EE.
Good luck
If you are disappointed you can always sell the rifle for almost what you paid for it on the EE.
Good luck
I truly dont understand how and why people sell there gun. I have never sold one, I figure I have it, its mine, might as well keep it!
The only gun I bought that I dont have anymore is a m14. And that cause it blew in my face after the fourtg round fired true it. So I return it to the dealer ou rehamburst me
LMAO...6-8 moa?? what ammo? why do you shoot off the mag!?!?
Damn...standing with my SKS, surplus (crap!!!) ammo I can do much much better then 8 moa. I can almost do that, 6-8 moa with my Ruger GP100 at 100 yards...
Did you/do you go over a gun before you shoot it and make sure its all to spec?
Oh my gosh, I just had an epiphany! You just made me realize that I in fact have no idea what I am doing and that every range test I've ever done over the last 15 years must be deeply & fundamentally flawed. In order to stop confusing folks who can't see this clearly I'll do everyone a favor and keep to myself from now on.
Cheers,
Brobee
I have now personally owned (or experienced on multiple range outings via friends who own) every non-restricted semi auto centerfire rifle available in Canada. Based on this experience I've developed a keen sense if what my own personal preferences are. I don't like the idea of keeping all those guns that, after having played with, don't like as much as others, so I sell them.
You should check out his review. It's posted here. It was fairly well done actually. I enjoyed it, especially for a very new firearm most of us have never seen never mind shot.
There may have been something wrong with that firearm, or the barrel was crap. It happens. It was what it was. Considering the experience with the XCR that poster has, I would rule out inexperience or lack of tightening bolts (lack of loctite) etc.
