Is this copper?

Grizzlypeg

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
80   0   0
Location
Winnipeg
Is this copper? I just cleaned the barrel and shot 35 rounds through it afterwards. Enough to worry about?

I bought the gun (Bergara B14 HMR 308) used, it looked like that when I got it. I then spent a lot of time cleaning it, and now it looks just like it did when I got it.

Wo7LINA.jpg
 
Last edited:
Yep, I think so - whatever material that your bullet jackets is made from. And some powder "soot" - going to be a bit of either one left behind on the first shot after cleaning - next shot might push some out muzzle or might pound it into the barrel - so "cleaning" is not a "once and done" thing. As I understand, "rougher" surfaces might have more places for that stuff to pack in - and smoother surfaces might have less hiding spots. You are only showing the muzzle - things might be worse or better all the way down to the chamber.
 
I took it out yesterday to sight it in. Started with cheap Federal M80 ball ammo to get it on paper. Shot 5 or 10 rounds of 150 grain soft point reloads, 10 rounds of 168 smk that I had loaded with IMR 4895, then 10 rounds of Federal blue box 150 grain hunting ammo,and then 5 rounds of Federal premium jacked hollow point 150's. The best group I got was 1" at 100 yards, but it was fricken cold by time I started shooting for groups and that didn't make it terribly pleasant. Nothing was spectacular, nor horrendous. I need to work up a load for this gun. I'm going to concentrate on the 168 smk bullets I have, as its a 1:10 twist barrel and should like the heavier projectiles.

I did all my shooting with a brake on. I had intended to remove the brake and do more testing, to see if it had any deleterious effect on accuracy, but I got too cold and went home.
 
Last edited:
I don't have a bore scope. I can only see the copper from the steep angle view of the side of the muzzle. The bore looking straight down it, looks bright and clean like a mirror.
 
Is what I found once I got a bore scope - what I thought that I could see when peering down the muzzle or from the chamber, was NOT what I would see in the bore scope. As per Post #2 - is really about what your targets look like now - which may or may not be related to what your bore looks like now - I can not "predict" about that, at all! Some rifles might want 2 or 3 fouling shots to shoot good after cleaning - some might want 15 shots worth of fouling to shoot their best - then, once there, "good" might last for 15 more shots, or 400 more shots - up to you to prove to yourself, on targets, what that barrel wants.

For looking down a bore without a bore scope - I have read some folks have a clean white patch in the bore - source of light behind them - that "white" will give some reflection so that you can see what is in there?
 
I sprayed foaming wipeout down the bore. Waited about 10 minutes and inserted a cotton swap to the muzzle. Came out absolutely blue. I guess that's conclusive its copper.

I sprayed more in, and will let it sit for a couple of hours, then patch it out. That should dissolve a good bit of it, if not all.

I try the paper patch inside the action, and it gives me a great view of the rifling, but from that view, it looks clean as a whistle. It's only that sideways view I can get at the muzzle that shows the yellow streaks.
 
I sprayed foaming wipeout down the bore. Waited about 10 minutes and inserted a cotton swap to the muzzle. Came out absolutely blue. I guess that's conclusive its copper.

Using an indicating copper solvent is the quickest and cheapest way to determine if your barrel is "clean".
 
Maybe will take some "staring and studying" - you will likely have some jacket residue on the face of the grooves and also on the face of the riflings - and probably in the corners where the rifling meets the grooves, or on the sides of the riflings. Not all guaranteed - just the "stuff" that I have noticed in the bore scope - besides the various pits and scratches and machining marks that I was blissfully ignorant of. There might be other things that can be done with a bore scope - for me about the only thing I can do with it, is to verify whether or not that particular cleaning product is removing stuff or not - prior to the bore scope, I was totally dependant on what I could see come out on the patch - and then I noticed that if I changed the cleaning product, I often would get more stuff come out - so the first stuff was not getting everything that was in there - even though the patch told me that it was.
 
I recalled a discussion on "Copper Equalibrium" and searched a bit. There was quite a controversy regarding 'How Much" and "Should I " remove Copper ? Here's a couple, there were lots of threads a while back. Personally I clean out the carbon around 40-ish rounds, then Copper when it 'bothers' me. I'm not really accurate enough to care about 1-2MOA variations, if I keep under 4-5" at 200 I feel OK. I have a Ruger Ranch x39 that has a couple 'bad Chatter' spots that collect Copper and I try to leave them 'filled in' - doesn't really seem to matter for accuracy but as I shoot, Who am I to say ?

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...d-good-copper-equilibrium-in-a-barrel.227343/
https://www.thefirearmsforum.com/threads/what-leave-copper-in-the-barrel-for-accuracy.143651/
 
And at $2 a shot, I don't plan an extensive testing program . . . if I reloaded it might be interesting.
 
I sprayed foaming wipeout down the bore. Waited about 10 minutes and inserted a cotton swap to the muzzle. Came out absolutely blue. I guess that's conclusive its copper.

I sprayed more in, and will let it sit for a couple of hours, then patch it out. That should dissolve a good bit of it, if not all.

I try the paper patch inside the action, and it gives me a great view of the rifling, but from that view, it looks clean as a whistle. It's only that sideways view I can get at the muzzle that shows the yellow streaks.

I have used the foaming WipeOut for several years now - so has been a LONG time since I read the maker's directions - has been my practice to put the barrel horizontal in a soft jaw vice - I have that little tube thing that goes on the can - insert that into the chamber and give a couple part-of-a-second shots to get white foam coming out the muzzle - then I leave like that overnight - I run snug fitting patches on a spear type jag in the morning - usually three dry ones. For really grunged up old bores that obviously have not been cleaned in decades, I will do maybe 20 or 40 full length back and forth swipes with a snug fitting - usually new - bronze bore brush - before the patches - amazing amount of crud comes out. Like is posted, I believe the "blue" colour is showing that it was working on copper. On really fouled bores, will be like going through layers - mostly blue - then mostly browns or blacks - then back to more blue again - that is over several days, and multiple 12 hour soaks.
 
Having thought about this more, I am inclined to now just leave the barrel to do what it is inclined to do, knowing that cleaning it thoroughly every 35 rounds isn't practical unless it brings benefit. I will leave the barrel to accumulate copper and see how that impacts accuracy. I may have done more harm than good by having cleaned it again so thoroughly, if that requires more shots through it to condition it to a stable state.
 
It's been my experience that MOST, not all rifles will start to lose accuracy long before 35 rounds.

I'm not talking about "acceptable for hunting at practical ranges accuracy"

If you're like most people with an accuracy fetish, you will want your firearm to be at its most accurate node when on a hunt.

When you become more familiar with that rifle, you will shoot it enough to know when accuracy is falling off.

That's when it's time to clean out the fouling IMHO.

Once the accuracy starts to fall off, in MOST rifles it happens much faster than it takes to get to that point.

That fouling shouldn't be left in the barrel for extended periods. No, I'm not talking about a few months but putting it in storage and not cleaning, then shooting it again until next fall isn't a good practice.

The biggest reason I clean as soon as accuracy starts to deteriorate is that it's much easier to get rid of the fouling.

When you keep shooting, the fouling builds up and every shot means you will need to spend more time and effort on the cleaning bench.

Yes, there are folks that have "jewels" that shoot well with very little maintenance. They are few and far between. If you have one, you've won the lottery.

Many here can attest, once they've allowed their firearms to go beyond the point of no return, it can be next to impossible to get that barrel to shoot well again.

I've seen bores that have never been cleaned after firing hundreds of rounds. Often those bores will never shoot well again, no matter what you do to clean them back to the bare metal, so you can start over.

Often a bore scope will reveal a patch of copper jacket/carbon that looks like its been welded into the bottom of the grooves at the juncture of the land.

Once this situation occurs, even electro-chemical cleaning won't fix it.

I'm not saying you will allow your bore to become that fouled, but I do believe you should shoot that rifle, without over heating the barrel, say five rounds, stop for cooling and another five rounds, cool and continue this process until you notice accuracy falling off. Then you know it's time to clean that fouling out of your bore.

Every rifle is different. Many folks think that their personal rifle is the same as the same make/model on the bench beside them. NOT SO.

The rifle will tell you something is awry before the keyboard jockeys will.

Get to know your rifle's quirks and it will serve you well for as long as you own it.

I have a rifle on hand that will start to lose accuracy after 20 rounds. I have a Tikka T3 that will shoot 50+ rounds with minimal fouling and no accuracy deterioration. I have another Tikka T3, chambered for the same cartridge, same scope/mounts, same stock. Identical pair and they both shoot extremely well, but the latter rifle starts to lose accuracy after 25 rounds and quickly cleans up and behaves again for another 25 rounds, after one fouling shot.

So, just because Tom, #### or Harry's rifles behave in a certain manner, don't fall into that trap or think there's something wrong with your rifle.

That's just the way it is, not all rifles are created equal.
 
Back
Top Bottom